Christianity,  Politics

Does anyone care what happens to Hobby Lobby?

I am astonished that more Americans aren’t in an uproar about what is happening to Hobby Lobby right now. As many of you know, Hobby Lobby filed a lawsuit earlier this year to try and get relief from Obamacare’s abortion mandate. The case is still pending appeal, but the Supreme Court just rejected their request for an emergency injunction. In response, the Christian owners of Hobby Lobby have said they have no intention to pay for the abortion-inducing drugs required by Obamacare. That means that beginning on January 1, the United States government will fine Hobby Lobby $1.3 million dollars per day until Hobby Lobby complies.

This is the most egregious violation of religious liberty that I have ever seen. The United States Government is forcing these Christian business owners to pay for abortion inducing drugs in their employees’ insurance plans. It doesn’t matter that the law violates their religious liberty to conduct business in a way that is consistent with their conscience. Obamacare mandates that these Christians comply or face fines that will put them out of business.

When the controversy over the abortion mandate erupted earlier this year, the American public by and large got the impression that this was about conservatives who wanted to ban contraception. Nothing could be further from the truth. No one wants to outlaw contraception. This controversy is about the fact that the government is forcing pro-life business owners to pay for chemical abortions. If the federal government can force citizens to purchase items that they believe to be immoral, where will this end?

If this story is a bore to you right now, try to imagine for a moment what it would be like to be in Hobby Lobby’s position. You don’t have to agree with Hobby Lobby’s opposition to abortion to do this. Would you have a problem if the federal government required you to purchase goods or services that you believe to be immoral and against your most deeply held beliefs? That is precisely what is happening to Hobby Lobby right now. If this stands, what will keep this from happening to you?

The first line of the Bill of Rights says this: “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.” Obamacare prohibits the free exercise of the owners of Hobby Lobby. Who’s next?


Follow-up posts:

Do morning-after pills cause abortions? – December 29

Should Hobby Lobby pay the fines? – January 2

Remembering Chuck Colson’s call to civil disobedience – January 2

Owners and Execs of Hobby Lobby Speak Out – January 3


  • Chris Taylor

    I think it was Piper who said, ‘You know, the US fought a Civil War over lessor issues.’ I imagine we’re a little too like the fat rabbits in Watership Down.

  • dr. james willingham

    As far as I am concerned the Supreme Court has committed treason in seeking to deprive the owners of Hobby Lobby of their freedom of religious liberty stated in the Declaration of Independence and left with no rule of right in the U.S.Constitution. Now the Supreme Court has usurped authority arrogantly taking to itself and to the executive branch also the power of tyranny. Our American Freedoms are no more. Seems that what Rome threatened long ago, indeed, asserted in the Treaty of Ghent that it would destroy this Republic has finally been accomplished by a predominantly catholic court whose members took a vow to uphold and defend the Constitution and then proceeded to begin undoing it in the very principles which do not conduce to the top down government view of Rome and Romanists and Communists and monopolistic capitalists who by using the Federal Reserve and packing our branches of government with well-trained collectivists in our Ivy Leagues and State Institutions given over to the collectivist mentality have brought us to the brink of economic, political, and social disaster. It would not surprise me to find myself in prison and never brought to trial for utilizing my freedom of speech and press to to express my concern over this wicked and vile effort to steal what my ancestors and predecessors fought for in the American Revolution. Soon we will find the concentration camps that Jesse Ventura publicized beginning to fill up with folks caught for saying things in their own homes as well as in public, and the trojan horse of Sharia Law will soon bring us to blood in the streets as the Moslems insist that their rigid views of the Koran be enforced upon us. So the rich capitalist behind the communists will soon be able to get rid of the “useless eaters” to the amount of 6.5 billion people. Just think how degraded the Insane rulers will be by such blood letting, whether with the sword or disease or earthquakes by HAARP or Tsunamis from the same source or by people gone made from being subjected to intensive electro-magnetic radiations that interrupt the anger control centers of the brain. O yes, and then there is the military with their superb killing machines and their being let lose on the population, especially with folks from other nations under the so-called.United Nations, a front organization for the monopolistic folks behind the scenes.

    • Liz Wagner

      You are so right, Dr. Folks like you and my pastor have tried to tell us, and no one seems to listen. This is only the beginning. The only hope I see right now is for us to pray for Obama to have a “Road to Damascus” experience….if God could do it for Saul, he could do it for BO. Of course, some of the wicked kings in the Old Testament were dealt with much differently.

      • heath townson

        Or Obama could have a Nebuchadnezzar moment where God causes him to lose his mind and behave as one of the animals. One thing all should consider is that God will not be mocked. These leaders should tread very carefully or God will deal with them in His way in His time.

        • Derrick Holland

          I think we are already 4 years into Obama’s “Nebuchadnezzar moment”. Unfortunately, we are stuck with one that lasts 8 years, instead of the 7 that Nebuchadnezzar’s lasted.

    • Mira Smith

      I really think it’s unfair to accuse Catholics as being the cause of this when as a whole they are some of the more outspoken against it. It has been preached about in mass. They’ve also publicly denounced the stance of the supposed Catholics in congress that are for this bill. It doesn’t matter what religion a corrupt person calls themselves if they are not actually practicing that religion in any meaningful way or it’s teachings.

      • dr. james willingham

        Like the Baptists, there are good Catholics and bad. There are Catholics who also stand for great and good things. Just looking on the internet reveals quite a bit about about both camps…as it does with the Baptists or any other religious groups. There is an effort to call all criticism of Islam Islamaphobe, but the truth is we have a right to be apprehensive, looking on things like Sharia law, etc., as trojan horses that could spell the end to our constitutional government and our rights. Just look at Turkey where they have freedom of religion, but they put the squeeze on the Christians, regarding them as terrorists..and there are are only about 5000 now in all of Turkey. Are there good Moslems? Of course. Are there bad Moslems? Yes. Our problem is those who think their religion calls on them to use coercion and violence in the advancement of their cause.


      First Hoby Lobby and then one church and then another and then another. It is time for Americans to put a stop to it all. We the people need to rise up and take a stand, If I had the money to put it all together I would do it in a monent. Somebody with the means need to start some kind of movement. You start it and I will be your first one to sign up. It is the time to say no, not to just drugs, to to the gangsters in Washington that are robbing us of our rights and hiding behind the FLAG OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA. They say our country, then they need to act like it if they say OUR. I am so sick. This needs to be put in the news. We need meetings where those who are against this thing can get together and put our minds together to see what we can come up with to FIGHTTTTTTTTT. PLEASE RESPOND BY SENDING ME A PRIVATE MESSAGE. mY NAME IS lEONARD H. NEELY

      • Richard Conway (Travis) Boone

        I am Richard Boone, and what was going through my mind, I read in Leonard Neelys comment.!! We must not sit idly by!! Let’s STAND UP FOR OUR COUNTRY, IN THE NAME OF CHRIST!!

      • Beverly Markham

        Jan 5th is a shop at Hobby Lobby day. It is a start in the right direction but by no means enough. At the least the family will know that many are in support of their position.

        • Teresa Schurter

          Hi, I’m Teresa Schurter, stay-at-home, home-schooling mom, long time supporter of Hobby Lobby because it’s a family owned, Christian business & as a disabled artist I’ve always shopped there first. It’s not enough to support them with my $$ anymore. My kids are all supporting this stand for them, and it’s obviously their world we need to reach, the politically aware young people. You want to start a group, continue in the way this has begun-Facebook & Tweet- While I’m not crazy about social media, it’s become a necessary evil and it seems the fastest way to contact the most people for the least amount of money. There are so many links and groups on there, surely we can organize something thru them. We need to start a group

        • Elaine Fargo

          Elaine Fargo
          You are totally off the point! Stay on course with what is being discussed! Your on the wrong page! We are not talking about dogs or cats….

          • Elaine Fargo

            Elaline Fargo
            Teresa, that comment about dogs and cats was not directed at you, I was referring to the person asking questions about gay agenda and was totally off point to anything anyone was saying. It wasn’t the topic of discussion at hand.

            • Elaine Fargo

              Elaine Fargo
              This sickens me!!!!! Forcing them against their religious beliefs and rights!!!! Using blackmail against them by trying to make them pay 1.3 million dollars. If there ever was a time we need to speak up, it is now!!!!!! If you don’t want more of our freedoms taken away, CONTACT YOUR SENATORS AND GOVERNORS NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Our biggest enemy is TO REMAIN SILENT!!!!!!!!!!!

      • danielle

        Amen..we all as children of God no matter what religion need to stand up for God and against the evil in this world…..If all Gods people would do this we would be in much better place..

      • Elaine Fargo

        Elaine Fargo
        Everyone can send an offering to Hobby Lobby if you support their stance! We do NEED TO SIGN A PETITION!!!! AND WE DO NEED TO CONTACT THE NEWS!!! I don’t have a lot of money, but I do live 1/2 hr. from DC. THIS NEEDS TO BE TURNED AROUND BY THE PEOPLE. PROMISE YOURSELF YOU WONT BE LAZY AND JUST DO YOUR PART!!! IT WILL MAKE A DIFFERENCE!!! WE NEED TO FIGHT FOR OUR RIGHTS RIGHT NOW, NOT LATER. Sounds like the Natzi’s all over again in a different form…”Become a part of the “Third Rieche” or you will DIE.” C’mon people let’s all do our part! WE CAN MAKE A DIFFERENCE!!! Martin Luther King showed us that, and let’s not forget it!!!! March!

    • Sharelle Shoemaker

      I couldn’t have said it better. So glad someone with some sense is speaking out. People please stand up and be counted. Please everybody support each other as we try to defend our freedom.

    • Tiffany Woods

      With all do respect Dr, you do realize that Catholics are one of the most outspoken against this mandate? The so-called “Catholics” in the supreme court are not real Catholics. Yes, they do not uphold the constitutional values or religious freedoms of all. However, this is not because of their faith. They are Catholic in name only. As a devout Catholic, I am ashamed to have people like Joe Biden claim to be the same. A large majority of the Catholic dioceses in the United States have filed lawsuits against the government as well. Like the case with Hobby Lobby, it is not heard about on the news.

      • Erich Siebert

        I am not Catholic but polls showed “O” carried the Catholic vote by a large margin, even with “O”‘s VERY anti-catholic positions. This baffles me! I hope a large portion of practicing Catholics aren’t “in name only” Not to single out anyone. Just the only stat. I remember from that sad, sad election night. I have a problem with any person of faith that voted to retain the level of curruption that is currently in Washington. Heaven help us!

    • Martha Robertson

      I agree with you Dr. Willingham…all of us have heard the warnings of the end of time for many generations, but never have they been so on target as they are now as the Bible tells us, God help us to stand together with you for our fellow brothers and sisters in Christ, and for non believers let us always uphold them in our prayers, Amen.

      • Cliff Williams

        No one can tell you when the “end of time” is going to occur but I can say with certainty that your end of time will come within the next 100 years. Each one of us should make the most of whatever time we have left. If you want to organize your local area you can start a “Meet Up” group and start meeting to change things.

    • Jim Koverman

      Our current government was never meant to be filled with so many godless attitudes when created by our forefathers. Too many of today’s leaders were molded over decades. Many were children when God was taken out of their classrooms in 1963, and a number of those children have now grown up to be our leaders. Through the years, politicians, leaders of all ages and the populous have had the misfortune of being polluted with the lax attitude toward unhealthy recreation of all types. This includes illegal drugs, free love and viewing violence for recreation through TV, movies and video games. Our every waking moment seems to be blanketed with violence, sexual images and a world of “If it feels good, and I won’t get caught – Why not do it!”

      Now it seems to not only be seen as righteous for our government to turn their head from abortion related products. Now forcing firms to give them to employees or they face fines that may surpass a million dollars A MILLION DOLLARS A DAY! That is bullying of an evil, a most heinous nature!! ! It seems separation of church and state is the law of the land, until the law of this land feels the temptation to abort it just like our children!!! This will likely draw Christian firms like Hobby Lobby quickly out of business unless Christians take action. As Edmund Burke so wisely put it, all that is necessary for evil to succeed is that good men do nothing. Please share with other good men and women; with all Christian Soldiers and people with a soul wherever you find them.

    • Dillon Martin

      The actual text from the Constitution states that the state shall not pass laws that respect the practice of any religion or prohibiting the exercise thereof, and this does neither. This is, in no way, saying they can’t be good christians; they aren’t getting abortions, they are only paying taxes. It is up to their individual employees, under the program, to decide if they want one when the issue comes up. No where in the Constitution (or, more properly, the Bill of Rights) does it say that one person or group can defy the law to impose their own restrictions on others, which is essentially what Hobby Lobby is trying to do. I’m pretty sure, being a privately owned business, that they could post signs saying that abortion is an abomination in the stores, thereby expressing their disapproval to their employees. They only don’t because that would scare off customers and I’m pretty sure they want to remain wealthy, which is what I think this is about anyways – tax dodging.
      Second, nowhere in this article or any other I have found does it say that the judicial branch imposed this fine. They even state the reason: U.S. District Judge Joe Heaton said churches and other religious organizations have been granted constitutional protection from the birth-control provisions but that “Hobby Lobby and Mardel are not religious organizations.”
      The point being, the judicial branch CAN’T impose fines, so the issue was probably forwarded to the executive branch, where the fine was put into effect.
      Aside from that, I think you are hoping random historical references, large words strung together and your “title” of doctor (which should be capitalized, along with your name) are going to make you look intelligent. Despite not being the worst attempt I’ve seen, those don’t cover up the fact that you badly misspelled “Muslims” and you appear less than well informed on the topic and the actual rights afforded to citizens of this nation.
      Best Wishes,
      Dillon Martin

      • Cindy Ingram


        • Joy Felix

          Yeah Cindy, it seems (my sister worked at Hobby Lobby for several years and they kept her hours at 39 so as not to have to pay her insurance) that Hobby Lobby, which already hates to pay employees insurance has found a loophole it thinks it can exploit and wrap itself in white while doing it. Oh well. I guess lots of Christian companies do that. If they go under, I guess I’ll go shop at Michaels. Their sales are better anyway.

          • Elaine Fargo

            Elaine Fargo
            It’s obvious why they did the 39 hr. thing, that’s what this whole thing is about the government trying to force them against their will, rights, and beliefs. If this didn’t face them, I’m sure it would be different.

            • olivia virginia

              I don’t believe Holly Lobby practices the 39 hour per week policy. Some people just say things to stir trouble, Elaine

              • Joy Felix

                I suppose anyone can believe whatever they want to believe. I just took my sister’s word for it when she quit – she has no reason to lie to me.

                Hobby Lobby is from the only company that does that, Christian or not – but its easy enough to look up their ethical practices ranking online. Most Christian companies aren’t raking in the profits, so I would guess the majority bend the rules a bit. It’s just a human problem.

                Do Christians care that much of the stuff for sale comes from sweatshops engaging in unethical practices overseas?

                • olivia virginia

                  “The state of Washington is raising its minimum wage to $9.19 an hour, highest among 50 states. San Francisco is moving to $10.55 an hour. The federal minimum wage is $7.25, but some congressional Democrats want to raise it to $9.80 over two years.
                  “In comparison, full-time employees at Hobby Lobby earn at least $13 an hour; part-time workers make at least $9. The company has boosted the minimum wage of its 15,300 employees for four consecutive years. Hobby Lobby CEO David Green and his wife, Barbara, also have vowed to donate much of their fortune to charity”…

                  “500 stores in 41 states and more than 13,000 full-time employees.”

                  I guess any intelligent person here can do the math…Again, I choose to discuss matters with those who have their facts straight, which also seems to be a human problem in these discussions…

                  And until the people complaining about sellers of Chinese goods stop BUYING chinese goods, I won’t tolerate their contradictory complaints….


                    • olivia virginia

                      Most of us who have dealt with job evaluation and human resources are very familiar with Please take the time to read reviews of other businesses on this site to get a sense of the type of site it is. Those who post reviews usually have a major gripe with their company and this site is a place to voice their complaints anonymously without fear of reprisal. When someone does five a positive review, it is often questioned by those with huge logs on their shoulders. Reviewers are not randomly selected by the site; they are volunteers. This site is not considered a credible source to look to for evaluation among the business community, but does offer management insight as to where the more troublesome employees are likely to arise, and is a great place to pick up gossip.
                      People who pick stats from sources such as these without checking their reliability are, to me, akin to those who take scripture out of context to try to fit God’s Word into situations for which they were clearly not intended.

                    • Joy Felix

                      Believe or not, I have worked in HR as well. Glass door is door is good for an overall evaluation and comparison. It’s about as good as the sites you suggested; of course a GOP site will say good things about businesses. It is in their best interest to do so.

                    • Joy Felix

                      I see where you are coming from though. It is always painful to have beliefs about a company questioned, all human companies look better on the outside. On the inside, one is just as fallen as another, Christian CEO not withstanding. Why else do churches get so entangled? We want to do good, but it is so difficult! HL is as human and fallen as any other, having done business with other corporations, etc. there are just too many grey areas for profit. I see their point I guess, I just feel like they shouldn’t make bad science into a national issue. Which is really at the heart of the whole thing – the morning after pill is just really strong BCP. It does nothing to affect pregnancy and isn’t abortion. But I didn’t know that from researching on conservative websites, that was just something I found from conversations with doctors and Biochemists who explained the process. Christians who feel alienated by the arguments – oh well. You would likely just argue they are liberal. None of them are, but I guess that will be your response :)? It doesn’t matter that much I guess, nothing could ever be presented as any evidence to anyone convinced of their position, so likely we should just stop yes? This is the sort of argument that so many of my disillusioned friends who have left the church bring up as reason. So I guess it’s time to quit. Blessings to you, and may your frustration be funneled for good.

                  • Joy Felix

                    And for the record, I do only buy fair trade. But that is a personal conviction – I have spent 8 years living in Asia, so feel strongly about it, but also understand that not everyone has had that experience. I just wish that it was more of an issue that Christians were willing to confront, since so many other things are confronted – what about slavery? Do we not care?

                    • olivia virginia

                      Lessee…I believe the question at hand was, should Hobby Lobby pay for their employees’ abortion drugs in their health insurance policies….

                      You commented about part time hours, sweat shops, your questionable references, HL’s supposedly unethical practices, entangled churches, what you call contraception pills, slavery, and made assertions that Christians are too narrowminded and “alienated” to accept data that conflicts with their religious views, but don’t care enough to act on their religious beliefs (when that’s exactly what the owners of HL are doing!) …

                      Yep. You’ve covered just about everything but what the article is actually about. I gave you solid, legitimate references and a chance to make your argument legitimate. I agree, Joy. My comment to Elaine stands. Thank you for this discussion. I was um interesting. I’m done here.

            • Joy Felix

              Hmmm I am not certain what you are saying Elaine – should no company ever be required to pay insurance? A young nursing student should be kept at 39 hours? She ended up taking out government assistance – Medicare in order to actually get insurance. She worked at Hobby Lobby so she could be off on Sunday’s and go to church, but ended up deciding if she had to be on government aid to work there it ultimately was self-defeating and she should just take out more government aid and go to school full-time. I am still not sure I understand your comment though.

      • dr. james willingham

        To Dillion Martin: Just down the road is a battlefield where one of my ancestors engaged in a battle for Freedom of religion. Not the Courts and the agencies of our Federal Government are engaged in a whole sale violation of those. You like your religious freedom. Just remember that our ancestors and predecessors did not suffer through that horrendous little war with what was then the greatest empire on earth to have our present government officials and our miseducated public from getting rid of this freedom (among the others) under the guise of making it a private thing. While the same freedom was advocated for the Muslims (cf Webster’s dictionary.10th edition) by our predecessor Roger Williams, the allowance of Sharia Law is a trojan horse that will spell the undoing of all of our freedoms.

      • dr. james willingham

        Moslem is a variant spelling of Muslim (Webster’s Intercollegiate 10th edn.). Dear Fellow, I am not the slightest bit interested in looking intelligent. You are plainly presumptuous in assuming anything about someone who writes on a blog unless you have checked into their background. It reflects rather badly on you to make such statements. Polymaths do not give a flip for erroneous presumptions.

      • Harry Buck

        Amen Mr. Martin! The government is certainly not telling anyone what they should believe but merely enforcing the law. Hobby Lobby by contrast is forcing it’s owners religious beliefs on thier employees.

        • sunny stufflebeam

          enforcing the law? they MADE the law… a completely freedom-grabbing law! Religion aside, govt needs to get out of personal lives!!! don’t they have enough to do with getting this country out of debt? certainly spent a great deal of time putting us there…

      • Keith McFarland

        Dillon, you took the words out of my mouth. I see no reason that this is objectionable; I see it as a vindication of personal liberty over the imposition of personal religious beliefs on employees of a company doing business with the public and required to pay taxes that could be used by women for abortion or other family planning issues or could be used to treat ovarian cancer or pay for a doctor visit and shots for an illness or what have you–the point is, insurance must cover it now, so companies have to pay the taxes required by law, and the ability of employers to impose their own religiously motivated restrictions on their employees in a fair marketplace is markedly unfair and wrong, and if you are so driven by your personal belief that you should be allowed to use your positions of power to tell others you have fiscal leverage over how they should run their lives and have essentially veto power over some very personal and intimate health and family decisions, then you have misunderstood what the Constitution is actually protecting in the first amendment, while Dillon, your points are sound both objectively and legally. It’s a pleasure to see such a calm and succinctly stated response to what has otherwise been a stream of outrage that religious beliefs don’t trump individual employee rights to make such determinations for themselves.

    • Sharon Johnson

      I could not he said it better myself. Why does God let this happen? He must have a better plan that I truly believe in.

  • David Thomas

    The “Real Politics” article you previousy linked to predicted the Greens would simply drop healthcare altogether, pay the $2 million per month fine, and toss their employees into the Medicare system.

    Now it is clear that the Greens are going to the wall for us all on this thing. By the time a Supreme Court decision comes down, they will have spent close to $250 million of their wealth in fines. I believe they are doing this unto the Lord, unto their employees, and (ultimately) unto the larger Church of the Lord Jesus and even for the sake of the country.

    My personal take on this is that the Greens are essentially modern martyrs for the faith in their own way, and the depth and purity of their faith is truly known only to the Lord, though He is granting us a glimpse. We owe them a great debt, because they clearly see all their wealth as nothing else but a gift from God, over which they are merely stewards.

    I doubt Obama and his minders expected anything like this. Once again, “to live is Christ, and to die is gain.” I appreciate your comments about America and religious liberty, Denny, but the only peace I get is to see these events as rear-guard actions in the apocalyptic age.

    Let us look up, for our redemption draweth nigh!

    • Anita Alexander

      Anita Alexander, love your comment and would add that we should support hobby lobby like we have chic fil a. give us some ideas how we really can help

      • Jane Smith

        First and foremost, pray for the Greens. Second, support Hobby Lobby by shopping in their stores or online at Third, let your congressperson know that you’re outraged.
        I work for Hobby Lobby and they take care of their employees in so many different ways. Great company!

        • Peggy Callender

          Peggy Callender, I think that is so not right, what they are trying to do to Hobby Lobby and I am behind Hobby Lobby 100%, the government is overstepping their bounds, the government is supposed to be for the people and by the people, not just a few in Washington, Christians we need to take a firm hand and stance and pray and talk all we can about this and a lot of other negative things going on in OUR capitol. as someone in one of the other comments, WHERE DOES THIS CONTROL STOP, I guess when enough good people get ENOUGH, PRAY AMERICA

    • Carol Atwood

      David Thompson, thank you for your comments. We, as Christians need to be much more aware of end-time events and see what is happening to our country and the rest of the world as those things leading up to the coming of the Lord. What ever your belief of the time of His appearing you must realize it is near and eminent.

      i see our country being so deceived by Muslims and thinking that their laws could never be handed down in America, that the American people would never stand for it, but I believe the time is coming when we will see it. Americans are not standing up for their rights and if you do you are called a far right winged idiot or a bigot.

      We must pray for those in authority. Pray to live in peace with all men but know that you may have to pay a price for your stand for Christ and it might not be financially.

      • Charles Rink

        Carol, I am also concerned about the future of the nation. Specifically the islamic threat. A sweet irony of this however is the war that will come some day when the pro-choice USA liberals run smack into the (strict islamic laws against abortion). Sharia or otherwise, they don’t tolerate it. Period. I don’t believe all these mosques going up in every state of the union are going up to assimilate muslims to the ways of the west. The “moderate” muslims really have no say in the matter, they don’t control the religion. Do you think barry would have forced this mandate if all our hospitals and institutions were islamic? I doubt it. No Christian of any denomination would do what barry is doing. He is not Christian and I don’t think he is muslim. I think he is a screaming atheist. I know this sounds a bit
        as a surrender if islam were to get to this point of influence in the US but their quran is no solace for any non-believers. I will pray and work against them and this so-called president.

    • Martha Robertson

      I love the teachings of Paul, and here in Philippians 1:21 where Paul speaks on Christ’s glory through life or death. And I stand with Hobby Lobby in their faith always keeping them in my prayers. Might I so boldly suggest a reading to all of Philippians 1:27-30. Thank you David, for our Savior is coming soon as you have said from God’s Holy Word.

  • susan jordan

    We are being deprived of our right to freedoms, our liberties of free choice and the mandates signed in the declaration of independance.

    • Angela McGee

      AMEN!!! I agree that the federal govenment has no business telling anyone how to believe or force us to do things that are against our bill of rights. They have gone too far in taking away our freedom and our rights and there should be something Christians can do to stand up for things like this. Angela McGee

    • Misty Black

      I agree totally! There are other companies that do not pay for birth control and such things of that nature, so why are they doing this to Hobby Lobby? If a person chooses to have an abortion, shouldn’t they have to pay for it out of pocket, it is not different than if an obese person wants gastric by-pass surgery and insurance won’t cover it!

    • Becky Mangrum

      I wonder if the Government made abortion mandatory after the first live birth would the same people who see no problem with the current issue be stirred. We’ve created a nation that wants the government (or everyone else’s money) to take care of them instead of growing up and taking responsibility for themselves. This all comes at the expense of our freedom which is being taken away one law at a time..

    • Keith Burwood McFarland

      But you’re not. You still have all the freedoms you had before, you however do not nor have you ever had the right to deny the legal rights of individuals who are not christian or simply believe that they have rights they choose to exercise over what their religious affiliation proscribes, and more than anything this is part of protecting freedoms of the employees and requiring the employer to take part in the responsibility of paying the taxes required by the affordable care act to broadly expands the number of people with health insurance, which is the law and a law which, again, expands the boundaries of rights to the individual, and enshrines the rights of the individual over that of the institutions they have to interact with in society that would otherwise seek to impose restrictions on employees that go beyond what they should be allowed to do. I support the fine, as they have chosen to evade the law of the land.

      • dr. james willingham

        To Keith B. McFarland: Hooray for you. But my ancestors and predecessors fought for religious liberty, not intending that their descendants and successors should be deprived of theirs. If you followed what is going on in the military chaplaincy, where the chaplains are having it made clear that promotions, etc., will not go to those who do not support the Sodomite agenda. There is no holy area where sodomite marriages cannot be performed. and praying in the name of Jesus is liable to get you into trouble. So Hobby Lobby is a minor episode on the way to full-fledged repression and finally persecution. Like the lady said some 20+ years ago, “We are going to put you Bible believing nuts in an Insane asylum where you belong.” And then the Supreme Court did rule in 1892 and 1792 that the USA was a Christian Nation, not because we had an establishment, but because the Christian Faith was the foundation and forming influence of our documents or did you know that? Yes, by double digits, like 34%, the Bible is numero uno in being the major source for our founding documents as two professors from Houston found. The next highest source was in the single digits, 8-9%, John Locke, and the third was 7-8%, the French Political Philosopher, Montesquieu. And the Baptist preachers made an agreement with the colonial legislators of Va., that in exchange for their freedom to practice their faith, they would encourage the young men in their communities to enlist in the Patriot’s cause. The chairman of that Committee was Elder Elijah Craig, and there was one whole regiment of Craigs in the Virginia Militia during the American Revolution. A personal friend of mine who died in ’96 was a direct descendant of Elijah Craig. Our son wears the first name Craig, because my Grandmother who raised me gave him her maiden name, Craig, before he was born. Do you not realize their are those of us who know American History (I taught the subject in College for a few years) and who are connected with the whole of our history to the American experience through out its existence, and we know what was intended> We also know when it is not being followed.

      • olivia virginia

        Keith? Don’t be such a fool to think that just because something is a law that it is right. There are many stupid and foolish laws, just google “stupid laws in the US” and you will find thousands. You must decide which laws are vital to your welfare. If you feel that a law compromises your moral or spiritual being, then you need to deal with it. You have that right. The Amish do. The Muslim do. Atheists do. I do. YOU do.

        When the “law of the land” comes to your door and tells you that you have to give up your weapons or go to jail, or that you need to take a special brand on your skin in order to buy groceries for your family or medicine for your children, will you do it? Will you willingly serve a leader who says he has all the answers to the world’s problems and is better than God himself?

        Because, my friend, that day is coming, I promise you. This is only the beginning. I would be very surprised if not in the next few years, the way things are going. You must learn to stand strong in what you believe in now, because you are going to need that strength in you when your life depends on it.

  • Jason

    So what I understand here is that the owners of Hobby Lobby and their religious predilections trump other people’s private healthcare choices? Hobby Lobby is not a religious institution, last I checked, so there is no First Amendment violation, so far as I can see. I am not anti-Christian, so don’t misunderstand me. I simply do not think Christian employers have a right to hide behind religion to skirt the law and effectively interfere with the medical decisions of a woman and her doctor.

    • Denny Burk

      Jason, no you have misunderstood the issue. No one is trying to abridge people’s private healthcare choices. People can still choose to take abortifacient drugs. We are saying that Hobby Lobby shouldn’t have to pay for them.

      • Sunny Stufflebeam

        When we go to work for any company, we look at their benefits pkg… each employer has the right to decide what to pay for and what not to pay for… the benefits pkg is part of the job… if it isn’t offering what you want, then people can choose to look for a different pkg elsewhere… if a co. doesn’t offer dental, and someone needs dental, they can keep looking… point I am making is Hobby Lobby offers a medical insurance that doesn’t pay for abortifacient drugs (when I was working, if any company offered insurance covering abortifacient drugs, would be news to me)… and with the new Obamacare laws, Hobby Lobby is FORCED to pay for abovesaid drugs… people can still take what they want but it is wrong to force a company to pay for something that goes against their belief system… Hobby Lobby is pro-life! They stand by their belief in the Lord with everything they do! They are closed on Sunday, they play Christian music in their stores, and people can either shop there or not.

        • Jessica Shier

          My employee provides one choice for me and all my other employees, and the insurance plan they selected does not cover any prenatal or maternity care (something that I do want in my plan as a woman interested in starting a family). So I could say the coverage offered by my employer is not adequate for my needs and I want something else… Well my employer pays 300$ of the 400$ monthly premium and if I turn down this plan I do not get a 300$ a month pay raise to go to the private market and get what I want, I give up that money. To get a comparable plan in the private market with the coverage I want I am looking to pay $400+ out of pocket each month. This is not something I can afford, so you are wrong saying I really have a choice here. My options are take what my employee offers which overall is a good plan missing in one area that is important to me, leave it and have nothing, go to the private market where the plans in my budget offer less overall coverage, higher deductibles, and still do not provide what my other plan was missing, or try and find a new job even though the market is tough and I may not find another comparable job near my home, let alone one with the coverage I want. It seems to me the only real option is to just take what I’m offered and by thankful for it! I am lucky however because in 2014 all health plans will be required to provide prenatal and maternity care so I can actually afford to think about having children.

          • Tony Berru

            I am an unemployed graphics designer (2.5 years now). I make some money as a free lance photographer. My wife’s company sold out to the Chinese last year and she carried our family insurance. After 6 months unemployed she got another job and the insurance will take effect in 2 weeks (finally). Jessica, as a diabetic I have needs that are not elective. I have to get care the best I can, wherever I can find it. The diabetes has caused me to have cosmetic dental issues. The new insurance is not going to cover that to a large extent, but will cover some. I say all that because it is life now. Am I going to demand that my wife’s new employers do a better job on their offer? Are you nuts? I have to find a way on my own. The Hobby Lobby is not the bad guy here, nor is your employer. The bad guy is the Obama Government trying to legislate our healthcare. Why should someone that provides you with a job have to pay for your dream to have kids, your way? Find a way to get prenatal care and have kids. Why should they (your employer) have to provide for abortion drugs, or anything that they find morally reprehensible, when you can exercise better decision making on your own part? Don’t want kids….Don’t get in a position to be at risk for pregnancy. OR, do what you want and pay for it yourself. Freedom is yours. I want better dental options….My job to do what it takes to get it done. I am happy my wife now has a job that offers some coverage, but it is on me to make the rest happen.

        • Lesley Smith

          @Sunny – Exactly my thoughts! That would be Freedom of Choice. We have too many laws about too many things, but this one is crazy. Anyone who wants an abortion, please do so, but please don’t expect your employer to take the responsibility for your choices. I liked the comment above about Gastric Bypass surgery. What about teeth whitening on your dental plan? What about elective plastic surgery? Breast implants? Nope. They are all individual choices and responsibilities. I am headed over to Hobby Lobby to see what I can do to support them by shopping there.

          • sunny stufflebeam

            We have too much ‘entitlement mentality’ going on… this needs to be covered, that needs to be covered, this needs to be paid for, that needs to be paid for… but then the govt wants us ‘entitled’ as it gives them more control… do people actually think this stuff is ‘free?’…. paying a cost somewhere and that is freedom… how the heck a govt can tell ANY business to offer this or that in their benefits pkg is beyond me… losing our freedoms one at a time… and once gone, you just don’t get them back.

      • Lindell Williams

        Denny, what Jason is saying is this, the owners of Hobby Lobby may be christian….. but the business is not! This is not the government making the owners personally pay for this. They are via their business. Hobby Lobby = a for-profit corporation not a establishment of religion. Your business is separate from your personal.

        • Denny Burk

          Lindell, that’s not true. Business owners are free to operate how they see fit to operate. They can sell Bibles if they want (like Hobby Lobby does). Or they can play Christian music (like Chick-fil-a does). Or they can refuse to buy abortions for their employees (like lots if Christian business owners do!). Congress has no say in the matter if it’s an action protected under the first amendment.

          • Tom Wanek

            Not true, of course. Business owners are certainly not able to operate strictly “as they see fit”. They can’t refuse to hire black people, or women. They can’t require their employees to attend their church. Etc., etc. And Lindell is correct, the business (as an entity) is a for-profit, sectarian enterprise.

            • Denise Hodges

              It IS true. It’s illegal to refuse to hire “black people or women”, since when is it illegal to refuse to pay for someone’s abortion? If you want an abortion pay for it yourself OR take your birth control pills, courtesy of Hobby Lobby.

              • Melanie Hallman

                Isn’t paying for BCPs against christain beliefs also. I thought it was be fruitful and multiply. We cant just pick and choose what we want to believe and then label ourselves Christian. If you believe in the right to life then shouldn’t that mean you do not stop life from forming. Besides after all God giving us the chance to create life isn’t that a blessing. Im just not too concerned about my employers personal beliefs as mine are just that personal not professonal. Should they have to pay well I guess that should be left up to the business owner. But I ask all Christians to actually live the bible not just the parts that they choose. There are more than 4 verses in the bible.

          • Michal Mudd

            Hobby Lobby also has the choice of whether to choose suppliers from the good ol US of A or buy everything from China where there is forced sterilization and abortion, poor health care, communism, and official atheism!! That doesn’t seem to be a big problem for them and they seem to be able to separate their business from their morals there!!
            FYI, some of the pharmaceuticals they object to are also prescribed to women for uterine fibroids, which can be a very painful and bloody condition. Are you telling me that someone suffering from this would have to go to HR and argue their gynecology with some middle-aged suit in order to get their insurance to cover such a malady? Would any man here be thrilled to lay his erectile insufficiency on the table to justify his employer cover what is essentially supposedly a medical problem but one hardly fatal?
            HL has no business delving into the internal organs or family planning business of their employees. They can put up all the propaganda they want in the store or the break room but they shouldn’t be dictating their employees’ health choices.

            • Bradley Johnson

              …….”but they shouldn’t be dictating their employees’ health choices.”

              Neither should they (nor I) be forced(or fleeced) to pay for them.

              • Melanie Goddard

                Actually the drugs are things like Plan B which prevent implantation (like the most commonly used hormonal birthcontrols), not cause abortion. My question is this, if people can refuse to allow insurance (of which the employee pays the majority out of their paycheck) to cover Plan B and hormonal birthcontrol, does that mean if I work for a Jehovas Witness, that they can make sure the insurance doesn’t cover blood transfusions, or organ transplants, or bone marrow transplants? Or would that be less religious freedom, and more imposing their religion on their employees?

            • Beth Knox

              Their employees can make whatever “health choices” they want to. They just have to weigh whether or not they want to pay for the drug or procedure into their decision making process. Hobby Lobby should not be forced to pay for drugs or procedures that they find moral reprehensible. That does NOT mean they are dictating what an employee’s decision must be.

            • sunny stufflebeam

              talking to some ‘suit’ to have your health care administered is going to happen anyway, under this new policy… a doctor’s slip for medical reasons (as in my daughter’s case) can handle the medically needed prescription (and there will be some cheating with that)… bottom line is HL should NOT be forced to align their health coverage with something the govt dictates… THAT is TOO MUCH GOVT! that is DICTATORSHIP!

          • Martha Robertson

            Thank you Mr. Burk. Along with what you are saying and will continue to say on this matter I agree, and another aspect of it all is so clear that not too many will admit to it. The CROSS scares a lot of people whereas they should be thankful for that “OLD RUGGED CROSS”. Without it even now, none of us would be able to freely voice our thoughts, beliefs in Christ, or read His Word. Thank you again.

        • Jenny N

          How is Hobby Lobby not a Christian business? I know that’s not specifically the issue at hand here, but I’m curious. If Hobby Lobby’s owners are Christian and they run their business based on their beliefs how then is it not a Christian business? Do you have to sell religious goods to be a Chhristian business?

          • Robert

            I disagree that it is not personal. They own Hobby Lobby and pay for it out of “their” money which makes it a personal business which means they can run it how they see fit. I am very much in favor of their stance and very supportive!

        • Sierra Gormley

          According to the law, and the Bill of Rights, the government cannot force a Christian (or any other recognized religion/faith) to break their morals for the sake of compliance. As long as you run your business fully in a manner within the guidelines of your religion/faith.
          With that though, you cannot commit crimes based on your religion/faith. If you want to be an Aztec, you cannot go around killing people in your store, for example.
          I think they should have every right to depict what they will or will not cover, just like we, as Americans, should be able to say no to insurance. If I could, I would get rid of all insurance. All it does is jack up the cost of things. If we didn’t have insurance, companies would have to drop their prices or close. Many doctors charge high amounts to offset their malpractice insurance. It doesn’t even matter because they just charge the insurance companies. Don’t believe that this is why? Look at the price of elective surgeries (non-insurable). $7000 for a nose job, $9000 for a full face rebuild, $3000 for full dental surgery, $5000 for a breast enhancement. If these were insurable, you could add 10000 to each of those numbers without hesitation.
          Same type of thing with Auto insurance, home owners insurance, etc.

        • Jackie Joyce

          What amazes me is that people are more concerned with forcing businesses to provide employees with coverage for chemical abortions, but there are businesses out there that provide insurance but refuse to cover mental health medications/treatments, cancer medications/treatments, and other more threatening illnesses….yet our president focuses his attention on making sure people have the option to end life instead of sustain life. Whether you agree with abortion or not, it is hard to argue that it is not the complete opposite of sustaining life. If it wasn’t, there wouldn’t be so many people opposing abortion. My husband has bipolar disorder and struggles to find insurance that covers mental health sufficiently. If he has an individual plan for insurance because his place of employment won’t offer him insurance, he’s not covered. It is sad that we as Americans….as people…are more concerned with forcing people to pay for something so insignificant as a chemical abortion stipulation in their company’s insurance plan, but NOT something that could help someone maintain a healthy lifestyle or mind so that they can also maintain their lives in society and provide for themselves and their families. It is just sad.

        • Wynona R Burgstiner

          Absolutely not so. Every business is owned by someone with values and morals either learned through life or learned through their respective church and belief’s. God made life and only God has the right to take life by natural means. Anyone who has ever carried a child to term and has seen the video’s and pictures given to parents during the pregnancy see’s a living baby perfectly formed (if God so deems) from the 3rd. month onward. The government does not have the right to force any business to take insurance coverage that negates their right to free choice. What happened to free choice anyway. This new mandatory insurance coverage is not free choice no matter how you may look at it. The employees will be paying by payroll deduction for insurance they don’t want or choose not to buy. What happened to choice in this situation. It is my choice to make a decision based on thoughtful study of any insurance policy I may look at in an employment circumstance.
          I have Medicare, and I hate it, I had no choice and have paid premiums into this program since it was enacted in the 70’s. I can not chose to discontinue the Medicare coverage, what happened to my choice in this case. If you think a business owner does not have the right to choose what he wants in coverage for his employees than you are mistaken. The employee can ask for additional coverage if he wants to pay for it, but the employer is the one paying the highest part of the premium the employee only pays a portion.

        • sunny stufflebeam

          And I still say, the darn govt should not have the right to tell ANY company what should be in their benefits pkg… that is between the co. and the employee… years ago, many companies didn’t offer any medical pkg… but then they began doing so in order to attract good people. Now everyone expects it and the govt is forcing it – govt interference is driving this country to extinction.

      • Benjamin

        I want to know, then, in your opinion should Scientologists business owners be forced to pay for psychiatric care for their employees?
        How about Jehovah’s Witnesses and blood work?

        Point it, either every religious business owner has exemptions, or none do. If every religious owner can file exemptions, then the whole thing goes up in flame.

        Really the whole government kinda goes up in flame, suppose the Quakers decide to opt out paying taxes because they are, traditionally, a pacifist religion.

        It seems to me that drawing the line at exempting religious institutions seems to leave us with the least amount of problems.

        Though if we want to just say Obama care itself is an unjustified abridgement of liberty, then that is another question.

        So, point is, what do you think about other religion’s qualms?

        • Stephen Beck

          Indeed, every company should have the option of whether to include health care in their benefits packages or not. I love how we have gone down the slope:
          1. It is good for people to be healthy.
          2. It is bad for the more sick people to pay for all of their medical bills.
          3. Companies can exist that pool a small amount of money from every person so that when certain needs come up for individuals, the company can pay for it out of the pool (while keeping a healthy profit for themselves).
          4. Employers can put some of their profits into the health care pools of their employees as an additional benefit on top of normal wages for work.
          5. All people have a right to affordable health care.
          6. All employers must provide subsidized plans for health care.
          7. The government should decide what is and what is not required in company health care plans.

          • Jowand Moore

            Jowanda Moore
            The moment Obamacare becomes effective for everyone (especially those who will get the insurance practically free at the expense of the taxpayers), the doctors will be swamped with patients, so much so that it will be nearly impossible to be seen or to get decent medical care. Eventually any good doctor will give up and go to a different country altogether or get out of the practice (as some that I know are doing already). It is similar to the military hospitals where I worked in the ER…it is abused and taken advantage of. Just because it is available, it is misused; people who are not really that sick feel that just because they are paying for it should just run to the hospital everytime they get a sniffle or yes, even dandruff. Believe me, they will abuse it.

      • Abraham Walker

        This seems to be a problem of basic concepts. First the owners of Hobby Lobby are not being forced to do anything, the Corporation (legally a person) is being forced to do something. Perhaps your should pay a little less attention to your ideas of Constitutional Law (Which you obviously haven’t studied as a real student would), and more attention to Corporate Law, (which I know you haven’t studied.)

        • Jowanda Moore

          Jowanda Moore
          Abraham Walker….you said it right there in your post when you said “the corporation is being forced to do something”. There you go, why in America should any company be forced to furnish this type of insurance? If the woman doesn’t like the medical part of the package, then get another job.

    • Nikki K.

      I don’t think Hobby Lobby or any other business of any sort can hide what they will or will not pay for. It is each person’s decision if they choose to work for a company that will or will not pay for one thing or another. No arm twisting involved.

    • JH

      They are a privately held company. They have the religious right to withhold contraceptives and abortion pills from the insurance plans they offer their employees. The point is Obamacare is unconstitutional. You should skirt the law if your constitutional rights are being violated.

    • elizabethregister

      I do not call the murder of a baby a medical decision of a mother. Though Hobby Lobby is not a church, it is owned by Christians and they should not be forced to fund murder, no matter what people choose to name abortion.

      • Carlie Barr

        That is simplifying the issue a little too much, because whether you call it or not, abortion is legal. The question is, as a Christian owned organization, should Hobby Lobby have a sovereign decision to provide the money when it comes to the health care via abortion of their employees? This is an extremely tough matter and I find it very unfortunate that Hobby Lobby is being fined while waiting on the Supreme Court. What happens if the court decides for Hobby Lobby, do they get all that money back? Doubt it. I think people should have the right to whatever health care they want as long as it’s legal, but find it more difficult to decide if the employer ought to be forced to pay for it.

    • david pringle

      jason ur comment comes without merit, if they cannot not hire anyone over your religion ,then why doesnt that go the same for them,they are the owners an there beliefs are as such, so why doesnt the same rules apply to the government, they are the OWNERS it is there beliefs that got them there.

    • Jeff Kirk

      Jason, Hobby Lobby is not a public, government entity. It’s a privately owned company. The owners have every right to run their company as they choose. If an employee has a problem with Hobby Lobby’s beliefs, no one is twisting their arm to work there. This is a blatant attempt on the part of the Federal government to force an agenda down our throats, and in doing so, the government has violated the Constitution.

    • Cheri Crawford

      Only hypocrisy would dictate that the public pay for a “private choice” and call refusal to pay for that “private choice” interferance between two individuals! Absurd. A woman still has access to the dreadful abortifacients whether her insurance covers them or not. It’s not like they are illegal (unfortunately).

      I think if we are to be stuck with publicly funded health care, lets make ALL health care choices publicly decided and abolish abortion and abortifacients. At least then the system would be consistent regarding the definition of “health” and “public”.

    • david blessing

      Jason, if the woman knows that is part of a companies health ins plan before she starts her employment, she/they can apply elseswhere. If you yourself aren’t comfortable with someones ideas, I bet you will disagree and fight for your belief; right?

      • dr. james willingham

        To Cliff Williams: Could it be that the rule on corporations is our problem? After all, a corporate person can exist for centuries. Should they not be charged with evil and brought to an end? After all, there is a work by a fellow named Black about IBM and the Holocaust in which is revealed that IBM made a whopping profit from supplying computers and punch cards to the Nazis in the 40s so that the latter had the lists and locations for every Jew in Europe where their armies went and could seize the Semites and ship them off to the extermination camps, a gruesome, outre, horrible business, the pictures of which taken by one of my church members in that church where the Catholics had threatened them with physical violence for opposing a state school bus bill, the pictures, I repeat, gave me nightmares. The Corporations are still existing which sold the Germans oil right up to the middle of 1944, American Corporations. Such organizations are the trojan horses like Sharia Law and certain Lodges and the courts (not Superior) where the Constitution is not honored more than a perfunctory tip of the hat.

    • Linda Corn

      Jason… Christian employers who live each aspect of their lives as a Christian should, also run their business as Christians should. They aren’t hiding behind anything…they are stating their beliefs and refusing to compromise them. Who do you fear, God or man? Man’s judgement of us is only for this life on this earth. God’s judgement of us is for Eternity! How pleased is God to see His children “give in” to the enticings of evil leaders and agree to help finance the killing of his beautiful spirit children…who have been waiting for their turn on earth to recieve their bodies? Why are women and their doctors given the RIGHT to kill babies? God does not condone murder of babies by any of his children. Since you really didn’t understand what this is all about, I hope you do now. IT IS A FIRST AMMENDMENT VIOLATION TO FORCE ANY LAW UPON ANYONE THAT IS AGAINST THEIR RELIGIOUS CONVICTIONS. What did you think the Constitution, the Amendments, and The Bill of Rights are FOR? To protect the people…from tyranny and control by the GOVERNMENT! That’s right! They work for US, we don’t work for THEM, Wake up Jason.

  • Pam

    What if the government decided that “it” wanted all employees, to be given free bibles and the business’s had to pay for them? What a screaming protest we’d hear. Maybe satan wants us to know that he’s still on the move…in a big way, he knows we’re commanded to be His sheep. “Think it not strange.” Love you Hobby Lobby!

    • Caroline

      Because businesses are not religious institutions. Which is precisely the reason Hobby Lobby can’t deny basic health coverage b/c of their religious beliefs. I highly doubt Satan cares about craft stores.

      • Tamara Smith

        Is abortion really “basic health coverage”? And Satan wouldnt be caring about the craft store, but about what the evil the craft store would be forced to provide. Caroline perhaps you need to look up what is basic health and what the dealing of the devil are…

        • Susan Thom

          I was thinking the same thing! An abortion is not ” basic health.” As someone stated, it is the opposite of sustaining life. It is ending life, and it is not the mother’s life that is ended. No one is being denied heart or cancer treatments. Why should a business have to pay for the result of someone’s sexual encounter?

      • Barry Smith

        Caroline, the business should have the right to precisely define health coverage. Has nothing to do with whether they are religious institutions. The issue at hand here is that Obamacare forces specific coverage and a fee imposed if it is not provided. That is the government running the business! It’s not a religious or non-religious issue, it is a constitutional one.

        • Caroline Carey

          But IN the constitution the only institutions that are exempt from following gov’t guidelines are churches, meaning that Hobby Lobby’s legal and constitutional rights are not being violated. If you go back to the 30s and look at the number of businesses that didn’t want to contribute to social security when that tax was first implemented you’ll see that the numbers are staggering and many more people opposed that than Obamacare. The fact is our laws are ever evolving, and there are measures in place to protect religious institutions from many of those changes, but private corporations don’t fit into that category.

          • dr. james willingham

            The religious rights of Hobby Lobby’s owners don’t count for squat. They are being denied to them, the very thing my ancestors fought for. When the American Government went against the Christian Faith as it did in the issue of slavery, the price was 620,000 plus battlefield casualties, not counting civilians who died as a result of sickness, neglect, etc. Abortion has cost us 55,000,000 dead babies, the importation of approximately the same amount of immigrants, legal and other wise, who are providing a good deal of support to the radiclib marxist minded dictatorship advocating an end to the constitution as out of date, in need of revision, etc. All just to get rid of our human rights given by God Himself according to the Declaration of Independence. Amazing!

            No one seems to be very aware of the fact that our rights are being removed, and, once removed for good, anything will go. Just think: a bill is about to be signed that says anytime the government wants to it can arrest and imprison any of us and never have to give an account or anything. Sounds like Spain and other nations under the old Inquisition and like Communist Russia a few years ago and Red China to this day. Is this what you folks want that are giving support to Obama? I was speaking with a friend down near Charlotte whose wife had been caring for a lady with dementia. A Medical group made a decision and cut off her medicine. She was still alive at last count and suffering horribly. Another case had been getting dialysis. A medical group made the decision to cut her off from that life saving necessity, and in three days she was dead. And they said that such things would not happen. They have already happened, and I have communicated with some who backed Obama and who had said that would not be and now they are justifying it, saying you got to die sometime. What is obvious is that we are being driven to armed insurrection so that they can bring foreign armies of the United Nations and exterminate us, something that has been in the work for over 200 years. Whether they can get that far I do not know, but I do know now that they are further along than I ever thought they would get.

            • dr. james willingham

              I had an interesting childhood! My grandfather and his brother who had been in the intelligence unit of General MacArthur in World War II and had a battlefield commission from World War I had been with the Allied Expeditionary Force in Siberia, had taken part in the Philippine War in 1904 where he met MacArthur who was a shavetail lieutenant fresh out of West point, and had charged up San Juan Hill in the Spanish American Wary, use to argue about a world conspiracy. They were joined by my mother and two uncles and aunts. It was one of the wildest things I ever seen, because except for Grandpa’s brother they were are poor farmers or factory or office workers. One neighbor told Grandpa, “I am going to join the army and get my two years in. I won’t have to go over seas.” Grandpa said, In such and such amount of time you will be overseas in a World War. After the war the man came back to grandpa and said, “You were right I was overseas in a World War. The only thing you were wrong about was the time.” I forget whether Grandpa told him it would be six mos or a year. In any case, it was the other. That fellow died in 2010. I grieve when I think of what our people went through in all these wars, all preplanned clear back into the 19th century. No one believes me. Perhaps they will, when we meet in the concentration camps or at the execution line. Too bad, people don’t do research, and I am not talking about the usual junk of tear hairs.

              The solution is a Third Great Awakening for which I have been praying some 39 years. One of these days the pleading of the promises listed in Jonathan Edwards Humble Attempt which were pleaded by William Carey, Andrew Fuller, Luther Rice, and others must be answered. What a day that will be! The whole earth converted in one generation and continuing for a 1000 generations, anywhere from 20,000-900,000 + years and reaching millions of planets, all so God can make His humorous remark and make it so about a number of redeemed in Heaven that no one can number, Rev.7:9. All to cheer His suffering children in every generation.

          • Greg Scott

            “But IN the constitution the only institutions that are exempt from following gov’t guidelines are churches”

            Oh really, Ms. Carey? Can you show me where you find this? Might we look at the text of the First Amendment?

      • Lisa

        Why should abortion be considered basic health care? It’s not a cold, flu, vaccination or well check up. A BABY IT IS A LIFE AT ANY GESTATION! Abortion should actually should be considered murder!

        • Carlie Barr

          However, it is not, according to the laws. People who do not believe in God or that abortion is murder should not be forced to live as if they do any more than you should be forced to have an abortion if you don’t want one.
          I do, however agree that abortion is not basic health care and I lean toward the idea that Hobby Lobby shouldn’t have to pay for it. The protections for religious groups are slowly being overturned.

        • Anita Diaz

          I agree and I don’t think tax dollars should pay for abortions. If you want an abortion pay for it yourself. I’m fat, do you think tax dollars should be used so I can lose weight? No, I should pay for it myself.

        • Joy Felix

          Abortion isn’t covered. Just the morning after pill, which chemically is just the equivalent of taking 6-8 BC pills. On a missions trip many years back, the nurse that went with us actually this in case of an assault. She was a Christian. She said all it did was build up the cervical mucous so that sperm and egg could never meet.

          That is what the mandate asks businesses to cover. While there has been speculation that it made implantation more difficult, medical doctors have told me (missionary medical doctors at that) that it is only theoretical and they have never seen evidence that it does. If they thought it did, they would take issue with it.

      • Mark S.

        Abortion falls WAY OUTSIDE of the realm of “basic health coverage.” Abortion, no matter how much you choose to deny it, is nothing more than LEGALIZED MURDER!!!

      • Tanya Pruitt

        Caroline I totally understand what you are saying, But in the beginning and now HL has stood by their religious standards. What makes this so interesting is that basically since they are a Christian company they are being made to pay for abortion drugs something that is totally against all they stand for. Is there anything in your personal life you stood for and completely told yourself you would not do because of your beliefs? Same as with this it is just a hugh company being targeted. I am totally prolife. I dont even take birthcontrol pills since they in their own way could cause a miscarriage and no I don’t have 12 children nor am I Catholic…Just a sinner saved by Grace…

      • Samantha McClain

        It’s not about basic coverage. Abortion inducing meds are a choice, not necessity. An insurance company can, and usually does, choose not to pay for a cosmetic procedure, even if you have coverage with them, because it is not a medical need. It is a personal want. The owners of Hobby Lobby are very devout in their faith and by providing these meds, it goes against everything their religious beliefs stand for. I personally do not agree with abortion as a means of birth control, but I do believe that it is a womans right to choose how she handles her situation. That being said, if abortion is the way you choose to go about it, then you should front the costs. This includes the meds that help this process along.

        • Myriam Bergantin

          I agree with you Samantha. A woman who didn’t think before she has sex with a man should not expect her employer to take care of the unwanted results. It was her problem…now if she was raped I could understand a little more though abortion is the end of a life. This is similar to a cosmetic want.

        • Phil Patta

          Medicine is used to fight diseases or lame the disorders associated with an unhealthful physical condition. If a woman gets pregnant, no matter if consent was involved, it means that her body is doing what all female bodies are designed to do! Pregnancy is not a disease!

      • Akash Charles

        so by your argument-christians should not have any influence on earth?!!!

        cause after all their ideas/beliefs should never be accepted or spread even if the run a business because a business is not religiously affiliated

        If I own a business, I want to be doing it because that is God’s plan for me and that I would follow his laws in running it.

        The bible constantly tells Christians to live their lives as God commands-if one runs their business as a separate entity and do not follow God’s commands.they are disobeying God

        Should we not be following the bible in all our walks of life.

        What about Nurses who refuse to assist in abortions-are they being ridiculous cause a hospital is not a religious institution??

        • David Banner

          Religion should have influence on PERSONAL life and choices. Never public, and never corporate. If you don’t want an abortion, or contraceptives, or circumcision, or a blood test… then don’t get one. You as an individual have that choice.
          But so does everyone else. The Bible has no right to control anyone that doesn’t want the control, and if someone wants to make their company a religious institution and only hire from within a set belief structure, then they sure can do that as well too. But Hobby Lobby has not, and is not doing so, so they have to follow the law that is for everyone, not just Christians.

      • Cheri Chieffo

        They are not denying BASIC healthcare coverage. They just don’t want to pay for ONE particular DRUG. My insurance that we pay dearly for has a list of drugs they don’t cover. So what’s the big freakin deal. You want to murder a baby because you’re to irresponsible to take the necessary precautions…do it on your own dime.

      • Gary

        Caroline, this is why we have freedom of religion, not “freedom of Worship”, as it is now being expressed. Freedom of Religion permits a person to take their faith to the streets, not confine it to a “religious institution” or “sanctuary”. We have the freedom to carry our Buddhist ethic, philosophy and values into every aspect of our lives, public and private. This includes our Businesses. We do not have to confine it. This has always been understood in this country (however imperfectly it has been carried out). The same goes for Hindi, Christian, and other Religions. It is our Freedom of Religion that establishes our Right to Worship. It is an inaliable right that is established as the Natural Condition of Man, and is to be safeguarded by our Representative Government….against any encroachment upon it, even if it is our own Majority. This is what “inaliable” is all about. Does this make sense?

  • Jimmie O'Mara

    why should the government make a decision when they can put it off and then charge Hobby Lobby the 1.3 million aday. The gov has to make money off us one way or another.

  • Mike Zysman

    Most people don’t remember, but employee based health-care wasn’t always the norm in this country. In fact, it was a loop-hole to get around wage controls legislated during WWII to attract employees. My point is there is no reason to even put Hobby Lobby in the position where it decides individuals health decision. Pay fair wages and let the individual buy their own health insurance and make their own healthcare decisions.

      • Caroline

        It isn’t irrelevant at all. You’re using that statement as a way to point out that people’s constitutional rights are being violated, when in fact they aren’t. They are not a religious institution, they are a craft store, therefore are required to follow the same laws as every other business in this country. They are not allowed to dictate what medical treatment any employee does or doesn’t receive. The “abortion drugs” you are talking about aren’t costing Hobby Lobby an additional dime. They will never know if any employees have an abortion, as that would violate the employees’ medical rights. At the end of the day Hobby Lobby has to accept the fact that as a CRAFT STORE they are not a religious institution and regardless of their beliefs they are not superior to the rest of the businesses in the world. If they don’t want to provide medical benefits then they need to be in an actual religious line of work. At the end of the day this is a huge publicity stunt for Hobby Lobby.

        • Denny Burk

          Caroline, They are a craft store PRIVATELY owned by a Christian couple. As private citizens they do in fact have the right under the first amendment to the free exercise of their religion. And that includes any entailments their religious views may have for operating their PRIVATELY owned business. The free exercise clause of the first amendment is an individual right, not one granted only to religious institutions.

          • Caroline

            You’re completely incorrect when it comes to their employees. No owner of any business that is not a religious institution has the right to force or impose their religious beliefs on employees, or discriminate against employees in any sense b/c of their religious beliefs. You’re arguing semantics of a clause that was intended for religious institutions.

            • CJ Mudd

              The people commenting in here that can’t seem to comprehend why this is a direct violation of the first amendment are the exact reason that we are even having this discussion. It’s the same ignorance and lack of common sense that has developed in this country that got this joke of a President reelected to another term. We shouldn’t even be in this discussion because Obama care should have never happened. I am not a very religious person and I happened to be pro-choice. But I am 100% with Hobby Lobby on this one. First, it’s against their beliefs and if that’s not good enough for some of you then for second it’s not their responsibility to provide it. You don’t see them handing out condoms with pay stubs do you. Umm, well I wonder why maybe just maybe because it’s not their responsibility to prevent you from getting yourself into something that you cannot handle. Just like it is not their responsibility to help you fix it when you do especially when it’s not something they believe in. To the owners of Hobby Lobby I applaud you for standing tall it’s about time someone does!!

              • Michal Mudd

                As far as getting yourself into something you cannot handle, wow, that’s a blanket statement if I ever heard one, fellow Mudd!

              • Charlotte Grace

                “Umm, well I wonder why maybe just maybe because it’s not their responsibility to prevent you from getting yourself into something that you cannot handle.”

                Are you kidding? If a woman is attacked and raped – or if a child is attacked, molested, and raped – you would tell that poor woman or little girl “you got yourself into something you can’t handle”? What a horrible idea!

                I am a Christian, and I pray people choose adoption, but I cannot believe you think that someone who becomes pregnant against their will got herself into something. Awful. No wonder so many rapists and pedophiles go unreported, if the poor victims think they will be blamed for it!

                • Jane Smith

                  Look up the statistics on how many pregnancies actually occur out of rape. Its something like 2%. That’s just a garbage argument to get people to say, “well abortion is okay sometimes”. It’s a slippery slope. Abortion is never okay.

                  • Misty Richey

                    Misty Richey, Abortion is never ok? What if your daughter was told she was going to carry this baby but both her hand the baby have a 90% percent chance of dying or option 2 she could terminate the pregnancy and save her life. Would abortion be ok then?

            • Stephanie Chavez

              Caroline, you don’t seem to get what Denny and others are say. No one has said ANYTHING about denying anyone any sort of healthcare, regardless of whether they agree with it or not. The argument surrounds the govt. trying to force any businesses for that matter to pay for this very controversial and somewhat optional “healthcare”. I venture to guess, that regardless of their own personal beliefs, that the owners of Hobby Lobby have not have actually restricted any of the employees’ healthcare decision. They simply do not wish to pay for them all. And for that matter, why should they?! Since when is it my employer’s sole responsibility to make sure that I don’t have an unwanted pregnancy? Shouldn’t I alone be responsible for that? Even in the cases of rape, again why is it my employer’s responsibility to care and pay for all my medical needs?

            • Donna Swallow

              I do not believe they are discriminating against employees, Hobby Lobby pays their employees a fair wage, they provide normal healthcare coverage, they have decent hours…. Most employers or insurance companies pick and chose what they pay for as far as medication and many people are suffering because their insurance will not cover the meds they need to be on. So why is Hobby Lobby required to pay for this abortion pill? Is the government going to make all companies pay for all medication? While some are saying this is publicity for Hobby Lobby, I can honestly say, it has my attention and it does make me want to support them even more. God Bless them, they are sticking to their values and its all for His Glory. We need more Christian employers such as Hobby Lobby and Chick-fil-A.

              • Jane Smith

                I work for Hobby Lobby and they pay far more than a fair wage. They’ve given raises the last 3 years across the board…even to part timers. They continue to give Christmas bonuses and have even raised them. Find me another company that not only cares about their employees financial well-being but consistently points to God with all they do and ministers to employees and customers alike.

            • dr. james willingham

              Caroline as an American Historian, as one who taught both American History and Political Science and as a descendant of a number of family members who fought in the Revolution, you might be in line with the party line on these interpretations, but you are wrong.

            • Greg Scott

              Caroline — this is NOT hard to understand. Not paying for someone’s morning after pill is in no way “imposing…religious beliefs” on that person and is not a violation of their rights. The government MANDATING (an alien concept in the history of this Republic) that private citizens who employ other citizens pay for someone’s abortion drugs does IMPOSE an unconstitutional burden on the conscience of the citizens. Saying that declining to pay for Plan B prevents somone from using it is like saying that refusing to buy someone a Harkins gift card stops them from going to the movies.

            • Samantha McClain

              Hobby Lobby does not open on Sundays, because, according to their “religious beliefs”, Sunday is a day of rest. I haven’t heard anyone say that they are imposing their religion on employees then.

            • Art Donkersloot

              The free exercise clause applies to individuals before organizations. Therefore, Hobby Lobby is protected by the First Amendment

    • James Stone

      Charlie, again, we repeat. If employees want to have an abortion that is their choice. Hobby Lobby is not trying to stop them. They just don’t want to be forced to pay for something they believe is immoral.

    • Sunny Stufflebeam

      Hobby Lobby is not deciding whether or not you can have an abortion – they are deciding that they are not going to pay for it.

      • Caroline Carey

        Some of the drugs they don’t want to provide are used to treat other issues aside from preventing pregnancy. The only way Hobby Lobby can know what the drugs are intended for is for them to delve into every employees’ medical history, which is in fact illegal.

        • Lissa Hailey

          Caroline … first you must understand how insurance claims work. The employer is not involved in determining which claims are accepted and which ones are not. That is done by the insurance administrators based on the CPT code submitted with the claim.

          For instance, a woman goes to her doctor to get a cosmetic breast enlargement. The claim is submitted to the insurance company and is denied, because cosmetic surgery is not covered.

          Another woman goes to her doctor to get the same procedure done, only she had her breasts removed in a mastectomy procedure for the treatment of cancer and the breast enlargement is for reconstruction. Same procedure, different reason, different claim code and the procedure is covered.

          Following through, a woman goes to her doctor because the condom broke last night and she afraid she might get pregnant. She is given Plan B or Ella which would either prevent the egg from being released by the ovary, OR if it had been released already and fertilized, would prevent the fertilized egg from implanting (thus resulting in the death of the developing human.) The claim is submitted with the code indicating that the treatment is for emergency contraception. If on a plan like HL wants to provide, the claim is denied and the woman must pay for it herself. Note, she is not denied the treatment at all.

          Another woman goes to her doctor with gynecological complaints. The doctor chooses to treat her with the same medication that is in Plan B or Ella (though I cannot imagine why as there are far better treatments available.) The claim is submitted with a code indicating it is for treatment of endometriosis or fibroids or some other disorder and the claim is paid.

          In none of these situations is the employer involved in any part of the decision making process on what treatments are performed or drugs prescribed, or the determination of which claims are paid and which are not. Their only involvement is in choosing an insurance plan that does not cover treatments to which their religious beliefs object.

        • Greg Scott

          Red herring. You are advocating the coercion of a private citizen who employs other private citizens, yet now you feel the need to bring in another issue that is completely irrelevant to your actual argument. You know that Hobby Lobby isn’t challenging coverage for standard BC, only abortion-inducing drugs, right? There are no medical purposes for abortifacients aside from their intended use. I’m trying to be charitable here, Ms. Carey – you don’t really seem to understand what’s at stake here and I think it’s either because you haven’t put much thought into it or you are completely sold out to the abortion industry.

    • Ingram Link

      Ingram Link – if you were employed by Hobby Lobby and wanted to have an abortion Hobby Lobby would not prevent you from having one. They simply don’t believe they should have to pay for it.

    • Asil Lynn

      Charlie, as i read your comment i see this: “I am just glad I don’t work for them. I would not kill anyone but if I wanted to I do not want my employer deciding for me” or this: “I am just glad I don’t work for them. I would not own a slave, but if I wanted to I do not want my employer deciding for me.”

    • Russell Tucker

      You need to understand, Hobby Lobby isn’t deciding for you if you get an abortion or not. They just don’t want to pay for it because of their religious beliefs. Your decision, you pay for it.

    • Mandy

      Hobby Lobby is not trying to ban their employees from ever getting abortions, however, since they are Christians who believe that abortion is immoral, they do not want to pay for any abortions.

      It’s not like a woman who works at Hobby Lobby would show up at an abortion clinic and find a sign saying “No Hobby Lobby Employees Allowed.”

  • Robert Kollenberg

    I want to point out the the medications in question, the ones cited in the Hobby Lobby case, such as “Plan B” and the “morning-after pill” prevent conception. They are not chemical abortions, because they work by preventing the ovaries from releasing an egg (ovulation), so that the sperm do not come in contact with an egg and fertilization cannot occur. The do not kill a fertilized egg, or keep a fertilized egg from implanting on the wall of the uterus. Some scientist theorized that preventing implantation was what made the drugs work when the drugs first came out, because the mechanism by which the worked was not understood. By there has been more research since, and now we know that these drugs prevent ovulation, not implantation.

    If life begins at conception, then these drugs are not abortions because they work before conception.

    Hobby Lobby is spending all this time and money trying to avoid financially supporting “abortion-inducing drugs” when the drugs in question do not actually cause abortions. The issue here is not a religious rights issue, because the drugs do not actually conflict with the Greens’ religious principle. The problem here is a misunderstanding of the science and biochemistry that make the drugs work. Someone should tell the Greens, so that they can save their time and money and rest easy that they are not going to be helping fund abortions through their medical insurance.

    • Denny Burk

      Robert, You are incorrect. The FDA and the Mayo Clinic still cite two
      mechanisms for Plan B and Ella. The first is to prevent ovulation, and
      the second is to alter the uterine lining so that the embryo will fail
      to implant. If the the first mechanism fails, them the second one
      comes into play. The second one is abortifacient.

      Last summer, the NYT ran a report citing studies that claim Plan B is
      not abortifacient. That report did not change the opinion of the FDA
      or of the Mayo Clinic, both of which still cite an abortifacient
      mechanism for Plan B. The FDA updated its. “Birth Control Guide” in
      August 2012 after the NYT report, and it still cites the abortifacient mechanism of Plan B and Ella.

      There were no studies disputing the abortifacient effects of Ella, so
      those concerns remain in place.

      Finally, the HHS mandate also requires employers to buy insurance that
      covers IUD’s, which everyone agrees to be abortifacient as well.

      • Christie Lasch

        you do realize that abortion happens AFTER pregnancy, right? If a fertilized egg does not implant, it is not an abortion, as it was never a viable pregnancy.

      • Derek Mc

        Denny you are completely correct on this…as a pharmacist I don’t dispense either of the drugs for the very reason that they are abortifacients, and thank God my local state has a “conscience clause” to protect my right to refuse to offer care to patients against my religious beliefs.

      • Christie Lasch

        Robert appears to have mastered basic high school biology. Something most of the people commenting here (and most especially the author of this piece) has yet to begin to understand.

      • Gene Jordan

        I refer to it as “Obamasurance”. It’s not really about health care. It’s an exploited loophole that the Obama administration and the left are exploiting so they can control how all Americans live their lives. It only provides if you are employed and still won’t protect you from bankruptcy after a major illness because of the high cost of healthcare. A cost that will only continue to rise as a result of the passing of this unconstitutional law. It also makes being self-employed nearly a financial impossibility.

  • Micah Dyer

    I’m inclined to point out that businesses and people are separate entities. Even though a person owns it, it’s still possible to be removed from control of it. That owner pays their taxes separate from the business’. That owner doesn’t get to spend the business’ money for his or her own use. As such, it doesn’t make sense to carry over the beliefs of one onto the other.
    It should also be pointed out that it is unfair for the owner of a business to take decisions out of the hands of its employees. Hobby Lobby’s employees are entitled to the same access to the medications and care as employees of other organizations.

    • Micah Holland

      That is incorrect Micah. I am self employed and own a business. Technically two. If a business is a sole proprietorship, it and the owner are one. A business is only a legal separate entity if it is incorporated. However, if incorporated as a sub chapter s corporation it is a hybrid of sorts and all profits and losses pass through to the individual as well as liability in proportion to the amount of issued shares owned by the individual. In essence, a business is only a separate entity if incorporated. However, this doesn’t necessarily apply to a sub chapter s corporation. Moreover, business owners have the legal right to operate their business as they see fit; equally, employees have the right to seek employment and/or accept employment where they see fit. The first amendment’s remark about an “establishment” of religion is not intended to mean a christian organization or church. It is intended to mean how one or more personally and ultimately exercises or “establishes” their spiritual/philosophical belief system within their life. As long as a business does not do business with the government and/or is not publicly traded they can do whatever they want. If employees don’t like it they can find work somewhere else. The company isn’t trying to push their religion off on others. They just don’t believe they (i.e. their business) should have to pay for or be a facilitator of services that conflict with their religious beliefs.

      • Caroline Carey

        You are completely incorrect on your interpretation of the constitution. Imposing religious beliefs in any way in a private, non-church, institution is illegal and discrimination, regardless if they’re publicly traded our not. Saying businesses have the right to operate as they see fit is incredibly inaccurate. What if you see fit not to hire black people? Or see fit not to pay minimum wage? Any and all corporations must follow the laws of our country, and health care is no different. As another business owner I think it’s important to point out that what you are saying isn’t completely factual.

        • Maggie

          Laws to protect against racial discrimination and to ensure fair compensation for work? You mean… BASIC HUMAN RIGHTS?

          Life is the MOST basic human right. The right to end it because of its inconvenience is not. Perhaps you can relate the the Greens’ position after all, Caroline.

        • Barbara Jackson

          But it’s okay if you force your beliefs on the company, Caroline?
          Again, as many have said before – In a free society, a country in which private citizens have liberty to decide whom they will/will not work for, an employer’s decision to not personally fund ANYTHING for an employee beyond a fair wage for the work done, is NOT imposition of personal religious beliefs on that employee.

        • Elaine Fargo

          The constitution also protects religious rights and beliefs, that’s what we came over for in the first place religious freedom, and if it opposes it, take a step back!

    • Shannon Qualls

      While it is true that businesses and people are separate entities, in “2010 the Supreme Court upheld the rights of corporations to make political expenditures under the First Amendment in Citizens United v. Federal Election Commission.

      As a matter of interpretation of the word “person” in the Fourteenth Amendment, U.S. courts have extended certain constitutional protections to corporations.”

      If the Supreme Court has ruled that there is protection for corporations under the first amendment, then Hobby Lobby should be allowed freedom of religion in deciding not to pay for an abortion inducing drug.

    • Akash Charles

      ummm the business owner is being forced to fund murders which the owners do not believe in, we chrisItian’s can never become perfect, but things like standing up for his word etc are the very basic things that we can strive to do.

      Also if any of my employees were getting abortions-I would be seriously concerned

  • Autumn Hansen

    America needs to wisen up and do something! We, again, have a president who is out to rid of all our freedoms that our great heroes have fought for. Wake up! No guns, no freedom of religion, and half the time no freedom of speech unless you’re completely liberal. Ridiculous! America will be no more if we keep this up!

  • Ginny Persinger

    David Green and his partner started Hobby Lobby in Christian beliefs…when his partner wanted to retire Mr. Green bought out his shares wanting to keep it in the vision they both saw. Eventually Mardels was formed and it is the Christian business that both partners saw. They both believed in family and fellowship with God. None of this has been a secret and was proud to be included by the public. Hobby Lobby has under gone lots of changes but Mr. and Mrs. Green continue to follow their God given right to stand up for Him! I fully support them and thank them for letting me be a part of Hobby Lobby for 6 years!

  • Jay Gee

    There is no legal violation of law here. Freedom of religion has nothing to do with what taxes you do or don’t pay. You could literally say you didn’t believe in roads so you shouldn’t have to pay taxes that go towards repairing them.

    But of course churches already don’t have to pay taxes so I guess they feel their religion makes them above everyone else somehow. Good thing organized religion is on the way out. Hopefully we can catch up with Sweden, Denmark, Japan, etc, and return to first world standards.

    • Caroline

      Thank you. If Hobby Lobby wants to be exempt from laws the rest of the private businesses in our country have to follow then they need to set themselves up as a church. You can’t pick and choose what laws you follow.

    • Gene Jordan

      Suppose the Government imposed a tax that all employers must pay to provide a firearm and ammunition for every employee they have. How much of an uproar would we be hearing from those who are against American citizens having the right to bear arms?

  • Mark Mulder

    All U.S. citizens that believe in the constitution better support Hobby Lobby to offset the fines.
    This will be a devastating blow to freedom if Hobby Lobby, The Catholic church and any other organization that does not believe the same thing as Obama is mandated by Government to buy something they don’t want or get fined. This is very close to the last straw! The next thing is going to be a revolution against the Government. There was a reason the founders left England and started on there own. The citizens of this country need to wise up or loose every right we have fought for for the last 200 years!

  • Ruth

    I care! But what should individual Americans do? Other than shopping at Hobby Lobby for my craft supplies and home decor what can I do? I would love someone to lead the way in tangibly supporting Hobby Lobby!

  • Brian Kelly

    If the Federal government took care of everyone’s health insurance then that would make everyone happy. It’s what the liberals want and it would remove Christian employers from providing things that are against their religious ethics.

  • Phillip Mosher

    Has anyone noticed if a christian makes a stand everyone gets upset calls them names and says there backwards or can’t comply with modern day stands. Yet if another religion does something everyone defends them. Why is christianity so different? Could it be that christianity is actually different? Considering our Lord Jesus Christ said Love your God with all your heart soul and mind and Love your neighbor like yourself that all the laws hang on these two laws.
    Why hate christianity so much? It revolves around Love -God is Love- Christians are humans trying to do what’s right some better at it then others. We all fail but yet we are targeted so fiercely. Why if we stand or fall we are hated? I doubt if a Muslum line of gas stations did this the goverment would even give them a struggle. Because that would be politicaly incorrect. Why is being against Christians politicaly correct though? Why are we different?

    • Carlie Barr

      Christianity and religions that believe in Jesus and God get some pretty bad publicity, I mean have you heard about Westboro Baptist Church? Or what about the murders done by Christians on abortion doctors, or hating on anyone who is not Christian? How about picketing the funerals of soldiers and the children who were killed in Sandy Hook? A group of Christians waving Jesus flags and acting like fools is what makes people hate Christians. Unfortunately, good publicity doesn’t sell newspapers, so you won’t be seeing any Christians donating to the Red Cross, or helping people rebuilt and paint homes, or volunteering at a soup kitchen in the name of Jesus. There is at least one reason Christians are hated so much.

      • Barbara Jackson

        Unfortunately, not everyone who acts in the name of Christianity is genuinely a Christian. Many people choose a cultural thing without any real knowledge of God. It has been that way since the days of unfaithful Israel doing what God calls “profaning His Name among the nations”. He also has harsh words to say about those who, presumptuously acting according to the world’s ways in His Name, malign the way of truth. So it is true that, on the one hand, there are those who behave in an ungodly way, who do indeed malign the way of truth. But we also know that since the world hates the Master, it will hate His servants. Jesus was very clear about that, too, as He was about to be put to death by the very ones He came to save. But He promises redemption to those who will come to Him in repentance and faith, and to those He grants His Spirit to begin to conform them to His image. None of us is sinless, but by this amazing work of Christ, who bore the penalty of sin for His people and brings them to God through His perfect sacrifice, Eternal life, as Jesus said in His High Priestly Prayer in John 17, is to know the Father and Jesus Christ, whom He has sent, and He will sanctify (set apart, cleanse, and keep) them through His truth, which is His word. The call is there. He promises to be found by those who seek Him with all of their heart. May God bless you as you seek Him.

    • Michael Guthrie

      Michael Guthrie here..@ Phillip Mosher Yes what you are saying is correct ..if we Read the word of God ..Jesus said as his followers we would be hated and persecuted.. because The world is backwards or blind. They are worldly …but the people that follow the world see Christians or The Body of Christ as being Backwards. Satan is the enemy!! and how do we fight Satan ? By the words we speak ,by our prayers using Gods words . just like Jesus did. I SUPPORT HOBBY LOBBY . I am speaking Blessings over their business I declare that they will be prosperous one way or another ..God blessed their en devours over and over..if they remain obedient to God He will continue to bless them

  • Angie Ploran

    For anyone who thinks that because Hobby Lobby is a craft store they have no rights…..Imagine that Hobby Lobby is Kosher Butcher and the Government said that the owner must provide pork to all of it’s employees. There would be a huge outcry. The government doesn’t say that they have to eat the pork, but they must provide the pork to their employees who may or may not eat it. This is against their religious beliefs and they should not be forced to provide it to their employees. Just because you think everyone should be eating pork does not mean you can force an employer to provide a basic need (food) to it’s employees. This is no different. If someone chooses to work at a Kosher Butcher they know that they will not have access to pork through their work and will have to go elsewhere and pay with their own money to buy pork. This is the same for anyone who CHOOSES to work for a company run by Christian owners. If they want access to birth control, or abortions than they have to use their own money and go else where to get it, it’s not their employer’s job to provide it.

  • Ethan Evans

    This is outrageous. What will happen next? We will be forced to breath only when told to? This is clear violation of rights. My wife is a lawyer and she has even confirmed that this is un constitutional! A business has the right to make any decision that affects there companies beliefs without consent from the government! This country was built off of Free enterprise! This does not seem to be FREE anymore! That’s taking away freedom of choice!

  • Will Guerrant

    As a matter of fact the government IS using money from me for things I disagree with. Chiefly among them, a ridiculously inflated defense budget. How come more Christians don’t care about the United States’ abandonment of Christian peace philosophies? Love they enemies, turn the other cheek, prince of peace, all pretty self explanatory really.

    • Denny Burk

      We are not talking about taxes or some levy from the government. We are talking about the government forcing citizens to purchase goods and services from another party. If we were talking about a tax, the moral calculus would be different.

      • Allen Fuh

        If I had a religious conviction that I could not purchase things from non-Christians, and all car insurance companies were nonChristian, would the government be violating my religious freedom by requiring me to purchase insurance for my car in order to drive legally?

        • Akash Charles

          umm your supposed religion seems to prevent and interaction between the non christian and christian

          such a religion would not exist cause it would not spread!!!!!

          get a better Idea!!

          • Allen Fuh

            One could convert people without purchasing things. But that’s not the point: the point is that religious freedom doesn’t mean you don’t have to obey the law, even when that law is that you have to purchase insurance.

            The constitution does not protect the religious rights of people to abstain from obeying its laws. If Hobby Lobby doesn’t have to pay for insurance, then Christian Science business owners shouldn’t have to pay for its employees health insurance at all, extreme Muslim business owners shouldn’t have to hire women, private business owners from Westboro Baptist Church shouldn’t have to hire homosexuals or former military. What if a WBC person owned a small private plane business? Should they refuse to purchase insurance for former air force pilots? And what about my newly created religion that won’t purchase car insurance from a non-Christian broker? If none can be found, should they be except from purchasing auto insurance?

            From a prolife perspective, the problem is that abortion is legal. But it is, so there’s nothing unconstitutional about this requirement.

            • Akash Charles

              they force businesses to hire a particular gender or race in this country??

              so what if all the women who apply for the jobs are better than their male competitors and as a result your company only employed women-you would be sued????!!!!!!!

              Where is this law exactly???-I am pretty sure companies can hire who they want.

              the constitution also states that the government cannot force us to go against our religion.

              • Allen Fuh

                The law is that businesses can’t discriminate based on race or gender. Are you seriously unaware of equal opportunity employment laws? This doesn’t mean the government forces them to hire a quota of women or minorities, but that they could not refuse to consider women or minorities.

                Where are these laws? See e.g. Civil Rights act of 1991, ADA of 1990, Employment Non-Discrimination Act, etc. I can’t believe you’re unaware of these laws.

            • Barbara Jackson

              Actually, there is a higher authority, one to which all earthly kingdoms will have to one day give account. When man’s law requires the breaking of God’s law, it is God’s law that takes precedence.

              • Allen Fuh

                God’s law is not the same thing as the Constitution of the United States of America. You can argue that a Christian should not follow some human law, including laws that are constitutional. Then to the lions with Christians. The mistake is equating God’s law with the US Constitution—lots of stuff condemned in God’s law is totally fine with the constitution.

                • Barbara Jackson

                  I’m not equating God’s law with the Constitution, and neither are the Greenes. This has to do with the sanctity of life that God creates, and which the Greenes are determined not to be forced to fund the destruction of. Has nothing whatsoever to do with the US Constitution; but at the same time, the Constitution does say that Congress shall make no law prohibiting the free exercise of their religion. One is God’s law, the other is a binding governmental authority relieving the Greens of having to face punishment for the exercise of their religion, which is the very reason the first settlers pitched their tents here and started this whole thing to begin with.

                  • Allen Fuh

                    But this doesn’t mean religious people can pick and choose which laws to follow. Christian Scientists don’t believe in modern medicine, but they still have to pay for insurance for their employees. A Muslim would not be able to build a mosque in his backyard unless his neighborhood was zoned for it and he had the proper permits. You can’t make a religion illegal, but you also can’t ignore laws on the basis of religion.

                • dr. james willingham

                  May be so Mr. Fuh, but if to the lions with the Christians, to Hell with those who send them to the lions though we would rather win them to Christ by way of first preference. God is the one who determines the final solution in any case.

                  • Allen Fuh

                    And understand; I’m not sending Christians to the lions. I’m just saying people should be saying this is a law I can’t follow WHETHER OR NOT it’s constitutional. Things can be constitutional and still totally wrong. For instance: slavery. America is not God’s people. The Church is God’s people.

                    • dr. james willingham

                      Mr. Fuh: I agree slavery is wrong, but the Supreme Court said in 1892 and 1792 that America was a Christian nation. The reason was the founding of our nation, that is, documents are founded in biblical teachings, and the two scholars from the university in Houston (whose names escape me now) found that by 34% the Bible is the main source for our laws and the next source is in single digits, 8-9%..John Locke. Take away that biblical basis in government and you deliver God’s people into the hands of a few who are determined upon their extermination at worst and certainly their extreme repression at best. Like the lady Chaplain from the UN who said we are going to put all you Bible believing types in insane asylums. Think she had something to do with the first Bush’s OBE (Outcome Based Education).

      • Jim Bauer

        I’m having trouble understanding how the government forcing me to purchase something and the government purchasing something with my money are different situations. The DoD’s business with Lockheed Martin alone represented 82% of that company’s 46.5 billion dollars in net sales last year ( In what way does that differ from me contributing to Lockheed Martin directly? By paying taxes you and I support that company and thereby the production of goods that will be used to end the lives of other people. How is this different? Why not talk about this?

  • Ann Kendall

    I will be sad to lose Hobby Lobby. This is insane. Our family lost health coverage in July, due to job loss. It took 6 months to get another job, and the insurance that is only for my husband goes into effect 60 days later. However because we didn’t have Health insurance for the last 6 months the insurance that WE have to pay for will not cover any previous diseases for ONE YEAR. The insurance has a lot of things it tells us it will not pay for like plastic surgery, or for mental retardation (their wording not mine). It will not pay for help with obesity or treatment for abuse of drugs. YET.. obama care will make companies pay for this. What an insane world we now live in.

  • Debbi

    Hobby Lobby could skirt the issue by dropping all of their employees to part time and not have to provide any insurance…..they are showing what they are truly made of by not doing that. Hundreds of institutions that are not considered religious have been gicven specific waivers because they line the pockets of legislators….this is clearly an effort to stop Christians from practicing their beliefs! HOBBY LOBBY ROCKS!

    • Stephen Beck

      I’m not a financial analyst but I’m pretty sure it would cost more to run a business with only part-time workers than with full-time workers (you would have to hire more to cover more hours, spend more on employee training, etc) plus you think all those former full-time workers would cheerfully remain working at part-time hours? They would all start shopping their resumes to Michaels, etc.

      • Debra Lynn

        Maybe, but I guess you do not realize that most of the jobs out there now available are only part-time without benefits. Besides, part-time equals, at most jobs, anything up to 37 hours a week. Since most full-time people work around 40 hour weeks, they would only be losing 3 hours a week in pay…which is not a huge drop if they are still able to keep their current salary rate .

  • Jennifer Black

    The only problem with what your saying is no one is FORCING them to work there…..there are other options like Micheals….Hobby Lobby is being forced to go against their MORAL beliefs, not religious. You don’t have to be religious to believe that any type of abortion is IMMORAL. And when people no longer have a moral code…..guess what….MASS SHOOTINGS

    • dr. james willingham

      Jennifer:You hit the nail on the head. It is but a short step from abortion to shooting people down enmasse. What is hindering them right now and what is about to be set right to their thinking is the disarming of the American people who scare the hibbie jibbies out of the foreign nations for owning so many guns and knowing how to use them. I was raised to use guns. I shot my first gun around the age of 6, received my first gun at age 9, a 410 shotgun, and the last time I tried could still hit a target more often than not. Nothing like my great grandfather who in old age use to stand on the back porch, do a fast draw and shoot the head off of a guinea hen for Sunday dinner. But then he was a cowboy and a gunman all his life, knew Jesse James and Billy the Kid. The latter rode into his camp one night and told him that Pat Garrett had shot the town drunk to get him off the hook. He didn’t believe Jesse was killed in St. Joe for some odd reason. My grandfather who raised me could drive a nail with a 22 rifle at a 100 paces in his 60s and 70s, and he was not seeing too well in those days.

      • Dennis Millier

        “it is but a short step from abortion to shooting people down enmasse”? Seriously? How many female mass shooters do you know?

        • olivia virginia

          In a vast majority of cases, behind each of these male mass shooters is a lover, mother, or other female who influenced him….seriously…

          However, the point I would like to make here is that the Affordable Care Act should not be considered a done deal. There are still too many flaws in it, and already we are seeing that it needs to be reworked. It should not be considered “law” until all these issues are resolved, and NO businesses should be penalized until Congress can get their Act together.

          What I see is that all this is going to drive up unemployment and the cost of healthcare insurance. People who are currently in full time jobs are going to be reduced to part time jobs by businesses seeking ways to pare down to under 50 to avoid providing insurance altogether. People will be left with the alternatives of changing jobs, taking on a second part time job, or leaving the work force altogether to live on unemployment, and to pay out of pocket for their insurance.

          The Affordable Care Act requires most Americans to have health insurance—which means “they’ll have to get health insurance by 2014, or pay a penalty of $95 a year or 1 percent of their income, whichever is greater. Insurance companies will be required to sell policies to everyone regardless of current or past health issues. As a result, over the next two decades, tens of millions more Americans will get health coverage under the new systems.” (

          Through this we can expect our premiums to rise dramatically as many benefits and services will be listed as a “specialty” and we will have to sift carefully among hundreds of plans like we do our life insurance policies. Many who are working part time jobs will not be able to afford the premiums these insurance companies will demand, but will be required to pay them because they have to have insurance or pay the penalty Considering the penalty is only $95 per year, how many families do you think will bother getting health insurance?

          In this situation, apart from full time, I can envision several scenarios:
          1. people on unemployment with no healthcare
          2. people working part time with health care they cannot afford
          3. people working part time with no healthcare
          Each of these make for a lot of frustrated people. Place them all in a liberal society and tell them that morals don’t matter because we don’t want to offend them,
          I think we have a problem.

          Let’s hope that long before those two decades are up, we acquire a Congress that comes to their senses and rethinks the consequences of this Act as it is written. It is by no means a perfect plan, and this problem with the Greens is but one rock to fall from the “Healthcare Cliff”…

    • Nate Tipton

      Where are women losing their rights in this situation? I don’t get it. They can still get an abortion. I will repeat: they can still get an abortion. I will repeat one more time: They can still get an abortion! No one is stopping them. Let me repeat: NO ONE is stopping them. How about one more time, OK? NOBODY is stopping them! The only difference is that they have to pay for their own abortion. Obviously, if they work at Hobby Lobby, they have a job and that means they have MONEY to pay for an abortion. #biggerfacepalmthanyours

    • Akash Charles

      rights!!!-i.e I can do what I want cause I am a selfish self obsessed maniac

      thank God all my rights are given by God and not humans.

  • Allen Fuh

    If I had a religious conviction that I could not purchase things from non-Christians, and all car insurance companies were nonChristian, would the government be violating my religious freedom by requiring me to purchase insurance for my car in order to drive legally?

    • Gary Simmons

      Allen Fuh: No, they would not. You don’t need to drive. If you are not willing to engage in commerce with a significant portion of society, then accommodating you would not really be feasible. I, as a pacifist, am still forced to pay taxes that go towards drones that kill innocent children in Pakistan and 10 other countries. 🙁

      Likewise, accommodating Jehovah’s Witnesses about blood transfusions is not feasible because that is a life-or-death medical procedure.

      However, contraception qua contraception is not a medically necessary procedure, and so the government doesn’t have a compelling interest (saving lives; confirming that car accidents and resultant medical bills will indeed be insured) that overrides First Amendment rights.

      • Allen Fuh

        THIS! is a good argument. Thank you! THIS gives a reason and a basis for how the government should decide about these matters instead of just saying VIOLATES THE CONSTITUTION.

        Of course the lawmakers disagree with you: they think providing safe and legal contraception is quite helpful for society. See Steven Levitt’s study on safe and legal abortion in Freakonomics. So on this basis they could counter you, and we could have a reasoned debate.

        The way the question is being treated here is as if when Christians decide something is immoral, being forced to do it is violation of first amendment rights because Christians say so. But this type of thinking logically justifies the absurdities I outline above. At issue is not first amendment rights, but whether contraception is something that should be made law *on other grounds*, grounds like Gary Simmons just gave.

        I disagree with you sir, but I respect you.

  • Vaughn Ohlman

    A good article. And has been said, many of the comment reflect a dramatic misunderstanding of the history of religious liberty in this country. The first amendment was intended to get the government out of all areas where it might impinge upon the religious liberty of anyone, regardless of their for/non profit status or the like. It was by no means only churches that were meant to be protected. How far we have come.

  • Derek Hunter

    This is an outrage! I’m praying for justice to triunph, and mercy on the govt. God be glorified in all this! We are proud of you Hobby Lobby! Continue to stand firm in the faith.

  • Tanya Pruitt

    It seems that basic health coverage isn’t the issue. It is just the abortion drugs are not what HL wants to cover in their basic health insurance. I for one understand what HL is doing. They have stood on Christian principles since their beginning In my personal life I have in the past took BCPs. However, after researching their ways of protecting unwanted pregnancy I uncovered that they could reject an egg if it was fertilized…resulting in a miscarriage. I will not take them anymore. No, I don’t have 12 children nor am I Catholic. I feel for HL because not only are they a Christian company but they stand on prolife issues, therefore, they are being pointed out in a negative way only because of their beliefs.

  • Allen Fuh

    The constitution does not protect the religious rights of people to abstain from obeying its laws. If Hobby Lobby doesn’t have to pay for insurance, then Christian Science business owners shouldn’t have to pay for its employees health insurance at all, extreme Muslim business owners shouldn’t have to hire women, private business owners from Westboro Baptist Church shouldn’t have to hire homosexuals or former military. What if a WBC person owned a small private plane business? Should they refuse to purchase insurance for former air force pilots? And what about my newly created religion that won’t purchase car insurance from a non-Christian broker? If none can be found, should they be except from purchasing auto insurance?

    From a prolife perspective, the problem is that abortion is legal. But it is, so there’s nothing unconstitutional about this requirement.

  • Allyson Gehman

    I completely support Hobby Lobby. But I’d like to point out something that most people don’t realize- many, many other birth control pills can work by creating a “hostile environment” inside the uterus therefore causing the fertilized egg to fail to implant. Here’s a quote from, under the birth control pill Yaz :”COCs {oral contraceptives} lower the risk of becoming pregnant primarily by suppressing ovulation. Other possible mechanisms may include cervical mucus changes that inhibit sperm penetration and the endometrial changes that reduce the likelihood of implantation.” How many Christian families use Yaz, or other birth control pills, without even knowing that they could be committing abortions on their unborn children?

    • Lori Servies

      Allyson, you certainly hit the nail on the head. We recently had a discussion at church about abortion and it led to contraception. A question was asked about contraception and why Catholics were against paying for it even before this mandate. Anyway, when told how they work and upon learning that most work by not allowing the embryo to implant, they became visibly upset. As Christians, we believe that life begins at conception so if a drug causes a fertilized embryo to not implant, it is abortion just as if you took the morning after pill. Of course though, when I was their age, I took birth control without ever thinking about it. I never had a clue how they really worked or how that contradicted my beliefs. But now I know. Thankfully, I no longer have the need for contraception. Unfortunately, most Christians have no idea what we really believe and therefore have no way to defend it. Anyway, I told the young ladies that they shouldn’t live in condemnation about things they had done when they didn’t know what it did. But they had control over the future and what they did (or didn’t do) from that day forward. Even though they were upset, I am not sure they were upset enough to change their “family planning.”

  • Kim Radford

    This is truly an outrage. No matter what your beliefs, how would you feel being a business owner of a privately owned company & the government stepping in & forcing something like this on you & your company. This should be no company’s responsibility to cover, but their freedom to cover if they so choose, not a mandate! It is our duty & our PRIVILEGE as Americans, as employees & as business owners to protect our rights & our freedoms. If we don’t start fighting back, it’s going to be a sad, sad day…We need to look to our government to keep order but not keep us up! What, if anything can be done to help?

  • Shawna Wright

    Yes I care. And I’m scared to death of where this situation is going and where we may end up as a country. I LOVE the Hobby Lobby stores, what they sell and what they have always stood for! God help them and God help us as we do our best to support them!

    • Kris

      I’m with you (and Hobby Lobby) Shawna!!! from a Roman Catholic that grew up closely with Southern Baptist best friend!!! I have always been so proud to be an American. What is happening to my beloved country? This is so very wrong on so many levels!

  • Aaron Deneese

    I am a Christian & a proud American citizen. I respect people’s Constitional Rights. The flip side of this arguement is that today it’s the “abortion pill” – do they have the right as a compan to not pay? ABSOLUTELY their right, but then be prepared to stand behind your convictions & realize that if as a person &/or company you are breaking any laws that reside – you will also have to pay the consequences or fines. Where will it stop for certain companies that want to be protected by the laws but be able to pick and choose which laws they choose to follow. You as a citizen can make it your work to try and have laws changed but not just do what you please & HIDE behind whatever your belief may be. There are a handful (prob more) of laws & items that as a Christian I find unsettling but know if I don’t like it – do my legal part to make a change! We can’t play this game of life w the cards we choose — unfortunately, things esp politics will not always play out in our favor on every count. The Constitution was created for a reason & even IF I find this story unfortunate (which I don’t because the law is not as Hobby Lobby claims) – they pay taxes, expect their tax breaks & such — it’s the rules & the law. If you choose to make your stand be prepared for the consequences. That goes for me as well!

  • Lori Servies

    I would not be surprised at some point in 2013 (probably earlier rather than later) Hobby Lobby will just close its doors and go home. I admire them for trying to stick it out but I don’t believe that they will be able to financially. They won’t be able to continue pay the fines for not providing the “abortion” insurance, they won’t be able to continue to pay the fines for not providing any insurance and dumping their employees into Medicaid, they won’t be able to get rid of all their full-time employees (nor would they want to) and they have said they will continue to refuse to pay for the “abortion” insurance. (I am only putting quotes around “abortion” because I am using it as an abbreviated term to include all the abortions/abortion-drugs/contraception/etc., not because I disagree with the point.) Their only option is to close shop and go home. My husband says he thinks they will sell they company to someone else. They might do that but I have a feeling they will believe that would still only accomplish giving in to the mandate. I am a huge fan of Hobby Lobby. I pray that God will give them the finances and the favor to take on this mandate to the finish and win. Maybe I am just being too negative, but I fear another large employer, a provider of jobs which we so badly need right now, is going to close its doors, just like Hostess.

  • Jim Davis

    I think people care but you need to look at the big picure this is not only about Hooby Lobby and what they want this is about all people and employers.What happens if they allow 1 employer to opt out on a certain kind of care and the next employer decideds he does not like smokers and wants to opt out of providing any kind of cancer care treatment we all know you do not have to smoke to contract cancer so where are we at when that happens or a different employer has an objection to overweight people and decides he does not want to cover any cost associated with being over weight maybe the solution is for Hobby Lobby to better screen their employees to where they never have to worry about the medication ever being used we all know insurance is a shell game at best anyway you pay your money and take your chances.Here is a question I saw used about this very subject if people are so set on religion then why did god let a drug like this be discovered in the first place??? Is your religious beliefs and convictions so hard to follow when it comes to god knows best.He must have had a reason or he would have not made this even possible.

    • Barbara Cawley Masaki

      Barbara Masaki
      Man has free will to make choices. When sin first entered the earth man gave over his God given dominion of the earth to satan. The devil continues to have power over dark deeds and man must embark on a path of either following darkness or following the LIGHT. We make our own decisions regarding the bad or good we will allow to influence us.

  • Kim Trader

    Darah – No one is trying to deprive women of their rights least of all Hobby Lobby. While I am definately pro-life and side with Hobby Lobby, I don’t feel that my “rights” are being violated. Without bringing the First Amendment into play here the only rights that are being violated are Hobby Lobby’s. A woman has the right to have sex with whomever she pleases. She has the right, if she gets pregnant, to keep or abort that child. Hobby Lobby has the right to choose not to pay for any birthcontrol, morning after pill, etc. for women, whether it goes against their religious beliefs or not. Women make the choice to have sex with a man and if an unwanted pregnancy is a result of that act then the woman should pay for the consequences of her actions not her employer. Basic health care covers the basics. Maternity coverage is even a choice with insurance companies. If you don’t want/need it you don’t have to pay for it. Why should an employer be responsible for paying for coverage they don’t want. If they don’t want to provide dental insurance, they don’t pay for it.

    The mandate is taking away the rights of MANY business owners.

  • Bruce Shelton

    Bruce Shelton-this is what we just voted into office. This is plain sad that my children and their children will grow up, worship God, work, play, struggle, in a society that has given away all the freedoms that people who came before us worked, played, prayed, struggled, bled, and died to get. We must CHANGE or our future is our present. When will it stop? It won’t. Sin isn’t something that stops, but in my heart God makes a change and we totally surrender. That means everything. Our money, our time, our eyes, hearts, thoughts, EVRYTHING. If not, then it doesn’t stop, it grows. And then what is our outcome?

  • Katrina Kee

    Katrina Kee
    These folks may find need to medically support an employee whose needs. of health needed abortion or worse and not have this available to them. Abortion is not only for birth control. Is better to err in caution than being judgmental.

  • Barbara Cawley Masaki

    I am appauld but not surprised. I would like to help but don’t know what we, yhw American people, can do? I voted: against Obama but what’s the next move?

  • Tambra Lucas

    No matter what this administration does to Hobby Lobby or the people of this nation, we know the end of this story and God will have the victory, He is returning and every knee will bow and every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord! This time he is coming to judge.

  • Hallie Bennett

    This has come to our attention at the busy time of the year that when I saw it last night, it was like, what’s going on with Hobby Lobby!!!!! So maybe when we are focusing on other things than family, friends, shopping, eating & the real meaning of Christmas……JESUS CHRIST……WHAT A GREAT TIME FOR OBAMA!!!

  • Lynda Slayton

    This is not a surprise coming from Obama!! There are no words to describe how horrible this is and the blatant disregard for “freedom of religion”. I will continue to pray for this.

  • Terri Christian

    I am not the sharpest crayon in the box but don’t ya’ll think once the government MAKES you buy something (anything) they won’t stop with just that? Won’t it progress to, say….you can’t post or give your opinion on blogs or web sites or publish articles that the government disagrees with or even write blogs the government disagrees with? Where does it end?
    I’m just getting my comment in while I can…..LOL

  • Bradley Johnson

    I want the Government to Mandate Self-Defense insurance so that my employee has to provide my guns and ammunition! (Does that put it in perspective?)

  • Julie Knutson

    …as a Christian I understand and agree with their stance…BUT….if one company is allowed to pick and choose what their medical insurance covers; that opens up a huge can of worms. If they are allowed to do this, then whose to say that another company or even Hobby Lobby says they do not want their insurance coverage to pay for cancer treatment due to smoking, chemical dependency/alcohol treatment, mental health treatment due to a suicide attempt…just to point out a few examples. Next thing you know….people aren’t getting the care they need or want. In order for this to work for this company, they would have to only hire Christians and how do you do that without violating a person’s rights? If they ask a potential employee “are you a Christian?” and they say “no”, “Sorry we won’t hire you”; that is discrimination at it’s best. Sorry, but I have to agree that Hobby Lobby is in the wrong here.

    • Lissa Hailey

      I don’t see the problem with the examples you provided. If it offends the business owner’s beliefs, they should not have to pay for it. Period.

    • Lynn flannery

      Hobby Lobby does not want to be a part of what they consider to be killing a person. Period. It’s not picking and choosing, it’s not imposing their morals on another. It’s simple saying that they believe it’s wrong to kill another person and they do not want to pay for it. Life is a basic human right and the owners of Hobby Lobby are standing up for that basic human right. Too bad more people didn’t take this sort of stand against the evils of slavery when it was a socially acceptable norm

  • Bradley Johnson

    I want the government to mandate Self Defense Insurance so that my employer has to provide my guns and ammunition. (Does that give it some perspective?)

  • Denise Dykes

    Most people don’t care a bit about others freedoms they only care about how much money they think the government will give them.

  • KM

    I am not sure how much of it is people ignoring it or feeling like there is nothing they can do. We can vote all day and as that has proved in the most recent 2 elections, it seems to be useless. Even when you try to vote for whom you think will do the best job and protect your interests and beliefs….those same politicians then seem to go and do the exact opposite of what they said they would. We can.have written letters to our congressmen and so on. The supreme court doesn’t care what us every day people have to say. They don’t care (as their actions are proving) that they are stomping all over everyone’s rights. I have been reading the news about Hobby Lobby and I do not agree with what is happening to them. I am worried about how long they can last once the fines start and how many thousands of people will lose their jobs and the benefits they do have….

  • Felicia

    Felicia Bentley I personal do not think a business or the government should pay for abortion or abortion drugs. They don’t pay for my child’s braces because it is optional care so I paid all 5,420 dollars of because it was not medically nessesary aborition is a choice you as an individual make so therefore pay for it.

    • Gene Jordan

      First of all, you are supposed to follow the rules to post here. You are not providing your first and last name, which is one of the rules. It’s his site, so he gets to make the rules.

  • Roy Fuller

    I believe your claim made in your post, “No one wants to outlaw contraception” does not accurately reflect the reality among many persons engaged on the abortion issue and in this debate. You personally may not be interested in outlawing contraception, but since some have suggested that the birth control pill can be considered an abortifacient, this issue is related to contraception. I think others who have paid attention to this issue understand this, which is why, to answer your question as to whether anybody is paying attention to what happens to Hobby Lobby, they believe this issue is being exaggerated by extremists in the anti-abortion movement. A second reason why I believe persons are not lining up with Hobby Lobby is because of claims regarding the status of a fertilized egg. You and others have argued it is human life, which of course it is, but that does not settle the debate. Others have suggested that a fertilized egg is a person, which is something most persons do not accept, and with good reason. Persons have brains which function at basic levels, something which a fertilized egg does not have. I don’t know of anyone who would argue that a fertilized egg which develops properly does not become a person at some point, but that point is somewhere well past fertilization.

    • John Kre

      If you’re going to say that it (I use “it” for the sake of argument” for the fertilized egg) doesn’t have something to argue that it is not life yet, then you can do that all the way up to birth and after, particularly for special needs people. My understanding is that at conception, a fertilized egg does have complete DNA. And even if there’s some uncertainty, we err on the side of life. Yes, I understand that some eggs may not implant on their own, but we should not intentionally cause this.

      • Roy Fuller

        The something lacking in a fertilized egg is a minimum level of brain activity which can be associated with a developed brain. This happens well before birth, and includes fetuses with Down’s Syndrome or other special needs categories. Primitive brain activity occurs after a few weeks, but some experts believe that the type of brain activity associated with typical consciousness comes later. This is admittedly a much fuzzier definition of when a developing fetus should be considered a person, but I believe this understanding of personhood (namely a functioning brain) is a much more reasonable standard – since it also can be applied to end of life scenarios. DNA is not a good standard, since most all cells of a living being have DNA. The fact of the matter is, a fertilized egg, which it is human life (what else would it be) is not a person by any medical or philosophical definition.

  • Matthew Lusardi

    Matthew Lusardi Soooo many don’t get it, u tel the government NO !! and they back off,! its that simple. More of you people need to tell the government to get out of your private lives and they will go away, fighting may i add, but go away none the less. Americans! stand up for yourselves

    • John Kre

      If you’re only talking about the goverment telling you to do things that are clearly contrary to God’s Word, and talking about saying NO in a non-violent, passively resisting way, then I agree with you.

  • Carri Bonner

    Ok, here is my question. Does their health care plan cover birth control pills? If not, does it cover pills for erectile dysfunction? Because if they don’t cover birth control pills because God doesn’t want women to use them (it’s His will) then wouldn’t His will also be that if a man can’t get it up, he shouldn’t be “chemically enhanced” to do so?

    If it does not cover birth control pills, do they offer a comprehensive and complete health care plan covering pregnancy, prenatal, issues if a baby is born early, problems for the mother with birth, etc.? If they believe that conception is the point of a viable baby and will not support paying for the morning after pill basically, do they have comprehensive psychological coverage for women employees who are raped and have no options because they can’t afford a pill that would stop them from having their rapists baby?

    If they offer a fully comprehensive healthcare plan that covers all medical, psychological, and after care issues, then I’m ok with it. If they don’t, then plain and simple, they’re hypocrites.

    However, they should also offer their employees the opportunity to take the money they would contribute and choose their own healthcare plan that covers their needs. Perhaps there is an employee who has been told that she should not have children because it would adversely affect her health – is it fair to expect her to not have the coverage she needs in case an “accident” happens (and NO birth control short of abstinence or surgically removing the uterus is fool-proof) ? Should she deny her husband relations because she cannot be assured that she would have access to a life-saving drug in case something were to happen?

    Where do we draw the line between ensuring our people have full health coverage and allowing companies to use their religion to rule the roost? Because they are a “Christian company”, should they be allowed to have prejudice against a pagan, a jew or a muslim that applies to their company to work? Should they be allowed to force them to work on their religious holidays because they’re a Christian company if they do hire them? Should they be allowed to decide that they will not hire a gay person? Or a mother with several children because they believe that she should be at home taking care of them?

    Again, where do we draw the line between a company that relies on public consumption in order to profit and their religious beliefs that affect their employees?

    One last question, for every one that has said “Amen” or “that’s how it should be” or whatnot in support of this company, would you be saying the same thing if it was a Muslim company that wasn’t providing a portion of healthcare because it was against their beliefs? Or would you be chanting that they need to obey our laws or get out of “our” country?

    • Lissa Hailey

      “Does their health care plan cover birth control pills? If not, does it cover pills for erectile dysfunction? Because if they don’t cover birth control pills because God doesn’t want women to use them (it’s His will) then wouldn’t His will also be that if a man can’t get it up, he shouldn’t be “chemically enhanced” to do so?”

      Covering a medication that prevents a normal condition – pregnancy – is far and away different from covering a medication that corrects a disorder. Just because both involve reproductive organs does not mean they are the same.

      “If it does not cover birth control pills, do they offer a comprehensive and complete health care plan covering pregnancy, prenatal, issues if a baby is born early, problems for the mother with birth, etc.? If they believe that conception is the point of a viable baby and will not support paying for the morning after pill basically, do they have comprehensive psychological coverage for women employees who are raped and have no options because they can’t afford a pill that would stop them from having their rapists baby?”

      I would think that yes, if it does not violate their religious or moral beliefs, those things are covered as well. And given that the cost of Plan B is between $30 and $60, that is very affordable for someone with a job.

      “However, they should also offer their employees the opportunity to take the money they would contribute and choose their own healthcare plan that covers their needs. Perhaps there is an employee who has been told that she should not have children because it would adversely affect her health – is it fair to expect her to not have the coverage she needs in case an “accident” happens (and NO birth control short of abstinence or surgically removing the uterus is fool-proof) ? Should she deny her husband relations because she cannot be assured that she would have access to a life-saving drug in case something were to happen?”

      This makes NO sense at all. Are you really saying that a woman who’s health is at risk from pregnancy should be allowed to take Plan B every time she and her husband have relations? Wouldn’t it be more prudent in such a situation for one or the other to be surgically sterilized?

      “Where do we draw the line between ensuring our people have full health coverage and allowing companies to use their religion to rule the roost? Because they are a “Christian company”, should they be allowed to have prejudice against a pagan, a jew or a muslim that applies to their company to work? Should they be allowed to force them to work on their religious holidays because they’re a Christian company if they do hire them? Should they be allowed to decide that they will not hire a gay person? Or a mother with several children because they believe that she should be at home taking care of them?”

      A company should be allowed to hire whomever they see fit. Period. There should not be special groups of people with more rights than others.

      “One last question, for every one that has said “Amen” or “that’s how it should be” or whatnot in support of this company, would you be saying the same thing if it was a Muslim company that wasn’t providing a portion of healthcare because it was against their beliefs?”

      Yes. How would you feel if a Muslim-owned company was being forced to serve pork in the company cafeteria or else pay a huge fine? How about forcing a Jewish-owned business to be open on the Sabbath else pay a huge fine?

      Whether or not we agree with someone else’s religious beliefs, they still have the right to follow them. When we decide they don’t, then we have given up our right to believe in accordance with our faith.

      • nemajordude

        Surgical sterilization is not foolproof. It is rare but has happened, that a man who has had a vasectomy has conceived a child. What if an “oops” happens and the woman would most surely die if the fetus were not aborted? If the family cannot afford the “morning after pill”, then this woman is doomed to death because she chose to work for Hobby Lobby? Not in my America, folks.

        • olivia virginia

          Are you forgetting or maybe neglecting that in this scenario hubby might also have a job and insurance? I would think that if a couple was not satisfied with the insurance the wife has, the husband would have added her to his insurance. Problem solved. Some of you are making too much of this.

        • John Kre

          The woman is not “doomed to death”. Don’t distort Denny’s argument. Hobby Lobby would just not pay for the abortion. Also, I’m not sure that they would consider saving the life of the mother against their beliefs or not; some pro lifers say abortions to save the life of the mother are morally OK, though others.

        • Lisa Stanford

          I would like to say that no pregnancy is an oops as you may call it. God is in control.He created life and he can take it. I pray for all of you who do not get it.We need to stand for what God stands for ,so start reading your bibles and he will guide you.God bless

    • sue wilkerson

      sue wilkerson- Hobby Lobby’s owners would be called hypocrites if they did not fight this and you can bet those who disagree with their stance would be quick to point this out. …And,I’m puzzled by those who are opposed to HL’s position..I have held many jobs throughout my long life most of which came equipped with some kind of health care coverage. I don’t recall any of them paying for contraceptives, oral or otherwise, or an employee’s option to have an abortion. Why is this now an employers’ responsibility? As for Carri’s comment: health care coverage by an employer has always been a ‘perc’..a employees, not a ‘right’. No plan is going to cover every possible situation so that no one ever has pay for their own medical care for their own body. Historically, Employee-benefit health care was offered to draw quality people to choose to work for that particular employer and employees did not expect to never have to pay for anything! It was offered as a benefit- an assistance. How very spoiled/self-important to think that as an employee I am ‘entitled’ to have my employer pay for everything I might ever need or want. In addition, HL is a private business subject to the laws of free-market enterprise. Yes, ‘they rely on public consumption in order to profit’ and therefore stay in business (providing jobs to lots of people- taxpayers, by the way). The free market, that is people free to support or not support a business as they so choose, determines the success or failure of a business. A government entity on the other hand, is not subject to free market forces and will continue to exist regardless of it’s benefit to anyone so long as public funds are channeled into it. The two cannot be equated with one another. HL’s profits are not public money. People can choose to spend their money at HL or choose not too. But HL is being told that it will spend money where the government (which is supposed to be public) has commanded. No employer should be commanded by the American government to provide what has heretofore been a benefit, a gift really, offered to it’s employees. Each person is responsible for themselves and their family. If you get to work for an employer who is willing to help you with that, it’s a blessing not a right. Folks, you don’t need your government to take care of you. Who feeds your dog- does your dog own you?

      • Belinda Wilson

        I agree 100% with you Sue, Couldn’t have said it as well though. Some of these post make absolutely no sense, but you and Lizza Hailey have got it right. I support Hobby Lobby for standing up for their morals. God bless them and I will pray that they survive this.

  • JoVon Pierce

    Guess I won’t be shopping there ever. I am a Christian but don’t believe in shoving my beliefs down mother’s throat. Judge not lest ye be judged.

    • John Kre

      “Judge not lest you be judged.” JoVon, unless you’re intending this post sarcastically, I think you’re doing exactly what judge not lest you be judge is saying NOT to do, by judging Hobby Lobby. And they’re not shoving their beliefs down mother’s throat, they just don’t want the government to shove the mother’s beliefs down Hobby Lobby’s throat by making them pay for it.

  • Becky G. Miller

    ….and I thank God for AFR or I may not have even been aware of this! Thank God for Hobby Lobby’s owners and their integrity too! Proverbs 28:6

  • Sarah Walker Gorrell

    An article in the Akron Beacon Journal stated: “No employers, in the private sector, have the legal right to force their employees to obey their employer’s religious beliefs.” That’s a true statement, but then….

    why should an employer be forced to pay for an employee’s unprotected sex? And, that’s about what it amounts to.

    I admire the Greens for being willing to take a stand, at such a tremendous cost. It’s probably a given….this is a battle they won’t win.

  • Wendy Roberts

    Call your congressmen and senators and demand oboma be charged with treason against the Constitution. The number one job of the president and congress and senate is to protect and up-hold the Constitution of the United States of America, not go against it. This a CHRISTIAN NATION. Oboma said it is not, he gives billions of dollars away that is not his, then he takes away and taxes the working class. Oboma is a muslim and his main agenda is to bankrupt and destroy the United States. Congress and the senate is allowing this to happen. Oboma thinks he owns the White House, its time the people show him the American people own the White House, and it is our business what goes on. Call your congressmen and senators and demand oboma jailed for treason.
    Copy and paste this to your email and pass it to all your friends before it is too late.

  • Dominic Goszewski

    Birth-control isn’t an “abortion-inducing” drug, its a pregnancy-preventing drug. It blocks the release of certain hormones that allow women to become pregnant, it doesn’t terminate existing pregnancies, so regardless of anyones viewpoints on abortion, this “court-case” (hardly a court case at that) has nothing to do with abortion, and these employees should have their guaranteed products (that come with Obamacare) just like the rest of working class America. There’s nothing we can do about Obamacare, because it is here and it is law, which means until it is repealed, we all must abide by it, including the owners of Hobby Lobby. Give your employees what they deserve and stop trying to push your religious beliefs on them. They’re your employees, not your congregation.

    • John Kre

      Can it cause a fertilized egg to not implant itself? If it can, than per this blog (and IMO), it is considered an abortifacent. And its not about business owners trying to push religion on their employees, its about the government asking Christian business owners to directly pay for things that are Biblically wrong.

  • Kelly Baldwin

    We are talking about Plan B, emergency contraception? I thought the packet insert said it DOES NOT interfere with a pregnancy.

  • Jasper Gates

    Even though my opinion on abortions is pro-choice even I am appalled by the act that our government has just pulled. This goes directly against the first amendment. Our government was formed to protect the rights and liberties of all people and this is a direct form of oppression. No matter what your side is pro choice or pro life realize this: the government no longer cares about your beliefs your opinions anymore. We have a dangerous road ahead of us these next four years if the government directly denies the rights of its citizens.

    • olivia virginia

      Nancy, I will write this in general, because Chik-fil-A just went through an ordeal also. After Hobby Lobby, there are sure to be others…

      1. Find out where your Christian businesses are PRAY for them BY NAME.. Support and encourage them by buying from them when you can. If you can’t, still take the time to stop in and chat and pray with them. What a difference it will make in your day and theirs!

      2. Mention them to your local city leaders, friends, and other businesses. Personal and positive referral is the best advertisement to keep these wonderful people in business.

      3. Find out the names of those in govt. who are supporting the bills and measures that are against the will of God and PRAY for them BY NAME. The Holy Spirit is the most powerful love weapon we have and can change the hearts of those who try to wage battles against his people. Complaining about them is selfdefeating and useless.

      We often use prayer as our “last resort”, when it should be our first resource. Every one of us should be on our knees the next few days asking the Lord to guide our country leaders into this new year, not just for this issue alone, but for everything that crosses their desks.

  • Jeff Coheley

    Well lets think what OBAMA has done for all Americans in the past 4 years. All I can think of is all the people who are hurting because they can’t find work and you have not seen anything yet. Just as Hobby Lobby is facing this joke of a law wait until you see all the people who will no longer have full time jobs because their employer can not fund this insurance.Health care is very important and we don’t need the Government telling us we need to fund murder because people are not responsible with their sexual life style. Insurance already has to pay for rehab for self inflicted drug and alcohol problems , we need the government to worry about all the wasteful spending they are doing and keep out of Hobby Lobby business.All the comments you are reading from all the brain washed (lets tolerate anything that comes by , its my civil rights, That is my reproductive right to kill unborn children )some day you will face GOD and you will have to answer for your own sins and I will mine just keep thinking the white house needs to tell you how to live your life and lets see how that works for you. And to Carri Bonner the answer to your question about Muslim business does not provide the type of health care you like you don’t work there ,If Hobby Lobby does not have what you want you don’t work there that is the way it should be . The Government or the employees should not tell a business how to operate.In 1968 my 7th grade class would stand up and salute the flag and have a prayer every day before class started . We had 30 people in our class and one girl who would not stand up because she said she did not believe we should salute the flag, my teacher would make her leave the room because he said no one would disgrace our country. Her parents came to the school and said they were offended and would not have it ,our teacher said to bad find another class.I am thankful for people that stand up for what they believe even if it offends some one . Thanks for standing up Denny I pray for Hobby Lobby every day.

  • Ben Smith

    Maybe they should read the Bible and realize that the Bible tells them to follow the governing authority because it was placed there by God. Romans 13

    • John Kre

      Acts 5:30 or 5:31 says we must obey God rather than man (like Dr. James W. said). If government tells us to do things that do not violate God’s law (even things we disagree with or think they are bad policy), we should obey as far as possible for us. When God’s law and the laws of the land or policies being enforced conflict, we are to choose God’s law over governement (albeit non-violently).

  • Laurie Novak

    As a business owner of less than 50 employees, we have always paid in full our employees insurance in full. This has always been our choice and we try to find the best price and we pick the highest deductable to save money also. The cost over the years have become outrageous. Medical-Dental-Vision-Drugs. I can’t see what is going to happen as Obama care takes full effect on all the companys of this nation, BUT my biggest question is why is this plan (ObamaCare) not good enough for Obama, his family and all the people on the government payroll? Why doesn’t Hobby Lobby just turn every store into a seperate company with less than 50 employees? How many businesses have already raised prices and fired people to pay for this? My next question is for all those people who work for someone with 49 employees and work 25hours going to feel when the government **fines** them because they don’t have insurance?

    • olivia Virginia

      My guess is that they would have to have separate owners for each store, and they don’t have enough people in their family to take on separate ownership responsibilities. And they shouldn’t have to.

  • Bill Nunn

    Maybe Hobby Lobby could put all employees on as part-time status (less then 30 hrs per week and provide no benefits at all. I think it maybe time for Hobby Lobby to check out new hobbies such as shooting supplies with arms and ammo. Including safety courses. Some zombie targets would be a nice touch. It has been a growing market for sometime now.

  • Charles (Bill) Carpenter

    The state of our country is disturbing. And although I am and advocate of Social media and encourage discussion here, we should all 1. Write letters to your local politicians 2. Show up at every administrative office which might have some responsibility to enforce and or collect on this egregious illegal law 3. Write letters to the officials and judges in the courts of our land 4. Send letters to every news paper editor and local media outlet demanding attention for this 5. boycott every media outlet not running our voice on this matter 6.If we are not heard, organize protests on the front doorstep of every politician, judge and the executive leadership of every media outlet driving our nation off the moral cliff, and anyone involved in this decision making process, force them to hear us. Have the tenacity of the lunatics involved with occupy.

  • billboyles

    denny burke, you should probably stick to teaching biblical studies, and leave the constitutional scholars to interpret the constitution. you know, like the ones in the supreme court, which have already upheld this law. after all, you wouldn’t want them lecturing on the meaning of this verse or that verse, would you? if the owners of hobby lobby were christian scientists and were refusing to pay for any medical treatment or coverage for their employees, even full time ones, this wouldn’t even be an issue. yet, it is a direct parallel. and oh by the way, the plan b pill does NOT cause abortions. they do NOT work once an egg has been fertilized. want proof? check their own website:

    “EC is not effective once the process of implantation has begun. It will not affect an existing pregnancy or harm a developing fetus.”

    So again, stick to what you know, biblical studies, and leave law and medicine to the lawyers and doctors who have studied it at least as thoroughly as you have studied the bible.

    and in conclusion, i will echo a previous commenter, when he quoted the bible itself: “give unto caesar what is caesar’s…” aka obey the authority put over you. after all, if god is in control of everything, and he has a plan, this is part of it and so is obama and everything else religious conservatives don’t like about the government today and who are you to contradict5 the will of god and god’s plan?

    i hope hobby lobby doesn’t comply, and then gets fined out of existence. it will be a pure darwinian process at work. natural selection for the business world. at that point the owners would be proving themselves incapable of competently running a business.

  • Michael Mundt

    The misinformation and disformation astounds me. HL can opt not to provide services on any grounds they want and pay the penalty. If that is what their conscience requires, good for them. To say that the law is wrong is why courts exist. The role of government is to provide permissions and prohibitions, and wrapping oneself in some historical “freedom” argumentation or slippery-slope argumentation does not help and ends up making one come off as a paranoid whack job. The desire to make “these times” more relevant than past times or the future is the manifestation of your imagination of self importance.

    There will always be an ebb and flow between the needs/desires of society and the needs/desires of individuals. The question becomes one of appropriateness. Here I agree that a company should not be directly required to pay for a service they find to be an abomination. If government believes that reproductive services are that important then it should provide for it out of the general treasury–granted not acceptable to many but far more pallletable than current law.

    No one is attacking Christianity, in fact, I usually glean more about the individual than about Christ when reading “pro-Christainity” posts. Just because people differ doesnt mean Satan is at play. Simply put, your understanding of Christain precepts differ from my understanding. The “suffering Christain” is non unique (all groups say it) and quite boorish, and becomes offensive as your understanding does not represent my understanding.

    HL is not my kind of place, but if they want their conscience, then, as of tomorrow, pay up. No one said conscience comes for free.

  • Sarah smith

    I resent your wording, first of all. “Abortion medicine”?? Really? It’s called health care, and it’s not Hobby Lobby’s job to pick and choose what people can do. They’re a business, not a church.

  • Enrico Dagastino

    Hobby Lobby should follow the law of the land. The owners of this business have no right to force their peculiar religious beliefs upon those whom they employ. Hobby Lobby seems to have no difficulty in transferring millions of dollars to China in exchange for poorly made goods, produced by ill paid workers, who labor under an oppressive government. I suggest that the hypocrites who own Hobby Lobby look first inward to clean their own house before having the arrogance to assert that they are the victims of some plot to deprive them of their liberty.

  • Bo Kruse

    The owners are religous not the business. I don’t care about their politics or religion. But if they want to make a point by not funding their employesss health care then I will have to make it a point not to shop there

  • Bryce Zahn

    I Thank God Christian business owners are standing up for what’s right. We live in a feel good society. Whatever best makes me feel like i’m getting away with my sin. There’s right and there’s wrong. there’s black and white-no gray. “You are either for me or against me.” -God.
    I dare anyone to do what’s right and see what happens in your life. We all have a conscience given from God. Whether we want to admit it or fight it, we know what’s right!
    Christians, let us seek God. II Chronicles 7:14 KJV

  • Jennifer Evans

    Jennifer Evans

    I just wanted to share some food for thought. I don’t like engaging in political discussion but I also want to challenge my Christian friends to think on multiple implications of an issue because what we post reflects on Him.

    The “abortion drug” issue seems like a no-brainer issue to take a stand against as a Christian, however, consider that when I was 12 weeks along last May with an empty sac and my body was refusing to abort the failed pregnancy, I was offered the opportunity to abort from home using these same drugs. I received abortion drugs, three different rounds three times to complete the abortion at home. I am a Christian, married woman who cherishes every baby and would never kill a baby or have an “unwanted” pregnancy. Although both my miscarriage babies were unplanned, I scrapped and scraped to push my doctors through three rounds of ultrasounds to be SURE that there was no baby, no heartbeat, no chance. Once I hit 12 weeks and there was breaking down of the sac at the last ultrasound, my choices were to continue to wait till my body got the clue which could be another 4+ weeks of carrying a failed pregnancy and risk possible infection and complications while being the sole care for my twin infants and my four year old, take the abortion drugs at home and abort in the comforts and control of my own home or subject my body to a DNC. I was able to choose the home abortion and it was so healing and peaceful. I was in my own bed and in my own bathroom with support of my family. It was a healing time for me to say goodbye to my baby that stopped forming early on and not be in an institution at the mercy of other people’s schedules and being poked and prodded with needles. My second failed pregnancy, my body miscarried about 11 weeks, this time naturally.

    Since I posted on facebook about those experiences, I have had a number of women in my shoes facing failed pregnancies as married, Christian women who wanted their pregnancies to succeed and have thanked me for helping them to think through such a difficult time and choice of aborting a failed pregnancy. I truly questioned why the Lord would have me go through those awful experiences but He has faithfully used me to help other Christian women through such a difficult time. I could not have been His instrument if not for it happening to me.

    One girl waited too long, was forced at 14 weeks into a DNC and then hemorrhaged at home and ended back in the hospital. Had she take the drug option two weeks earlier to take the meds, it’s possible she could have still hemorrhaged but possible that she would not have. Many tools out there can be used for good: guns, internet, automobiles and even abortion drugs. Many tools out there can also be misused and abused. I believe in giving people the freedom to make their own choices and answer to their Maker and Creator for their decisions which they will.

    Hobby Lobby is a business. Yes, a Christian business but a business with Christian and non-Christian employees. We as Christians cannot control our fellow mankind. We need to have fair business practices, excellent customer service, put out a good and reliable product but it does not witness to Christ to refuse medical insurance or parts of medical coverage piece meal. What it says is that Christians are insecure and feel they have to force their beliefs on their employees. What if they decided every employee, every morning should hold a prayer meeting. Opening employees MUST report 15 minutes early and pray together before they open for business and the closing employees must stay 15 minutes later and pray at the close of business. What if it becomes other religions and other non-religious sects? At what point do people stop trying to control each other and allow others to live to their convictions and let the Holy Spirit do the convicting of hearts?

    I think articles like this one written about Hobby Lobby are Christian group-think and I just wanted to throw out another point of view. I know how big people’s hearts and good-intentions are. It breaks my heart and brings me to tears to know that countless numbers of children never get a start in life. I just also know that we’re losing the ear of non-Christians when we get caught up in the political wrangling. Paul spent much of his time arguing with the politicians and lawyers of his day but Jesus did not. He just served and loved the people. What do you think this world needs? Just my two cents.

    • olivia virginia

      My heart goes out to you, to hear a different facet to this issue. In many two income families, there are options to choose health insurance from the husband or from the wife. I would suppose that if one works for a company like Hobby Lobby that does not provide for such services, one could elect to sign up for the insurance from the other spouse in the anticipation for any complications? Just a thought….

    • John Kre

      I’m not sure Hobby Lobby would oppose paying for what you did, at least morally. Pro-lifers don’t necessarily all oppose abortion for pregnancies that will certainly not cause a I certainly don’t. True, we can’t control what everyone does. Ironically, I think the moral calculus would be different if single payer insurance was the law of the land, because it would be the government paying for it, perhaps (I don’t know about copay, though). But leaving out other issues, this country can’t afford single payer by a long shot.

  • Steve Withers

    Hobby Lobby is attempting to impose its views on all its employees – whether they agree with those views or not. The health care of Hobby Lobby employees should not be limited by their employers views.

    • John Kre

      Hobby Lobby is NOT attempting to impose its views on all its employees, as has been explained over and over and over and over and over and over and over again here. Please don’t post ignorant comments or stop telling outright lies.

  • Norma Painter

    According to the news, Hobby Lobby is refusing to pay for the portion of health insurance that would cover birth control pills, which includes the morning after pill. “My understanding” about the morning after pill is that it is to prevent a pregnancy, not terminate one. Am I wrong? Do they not believe in people preventing pregnancy? Just trying to get some clarification.

    • Denny Burk

      Norma, morning after pills have two mechanisms. One is to prevent ovulation (a contraceptive measure) and the other is to prohibit a human embryo from implanting in the womb (an abortifacient measure). Shen the first mechanism fails, the second one kicks in. That’s why Hobby Lobby is going to the mat on this.

  • Paulette Jackson

    I am experiencing on an increasing basis that our culture’s concern is self preservation. There are those who are active in those political spheres. But regarding following Jesus, how do events that are inconvenient or threaten our self preservation, how does it impact our following Jesus?

    • olivia virginia

      Paulette, anything we do that doesn’t put the Lord first in our lives makes a negative impact on us, our families, and the world around us. We need to stand firm in our faith. I had a Christian business for 14 years, and although the devil tried to ruin it, he couldn’t because the Lord was the head of that business.

      It’s not only the business leaders who need to take a stand….How many of you are willing to send the message to your own place of business opt only for a (health) plan that is pleasing to the Lord?

  • william

    I only have a six grade ed. but I have can run the usa better than this gov. we have now.I am 68 years old. managed my first job at 18 and today still managed it.

  • Rita Battles

    Dont worry christians God will take care of Hobby Lobby he has been behind them all the way and will continue to take care of them no they shouldnt have to pay for the abortion pill and the government shouldnt require a persons work to pay for it and if i worked there and needed the pill i wouldnt want the whole company knowing i had an abortion

    • olivia virginia

      Rita, this has been rolling around in the back of my mind too….One would not want their bosses to know if they took drugs, so why would they want their bosses to know they wanted an abortion? Indeed, if it were medically necessary, it would come under a medical emergency, hence another category altogether. But to ask your boss for funds to abort a child you don’t want because you were irresponsible is beyond my comprehension.

  • Monica Bosse

    What am I missing here? We have religious freedom. this is a private company that does not hide its religous ideals – they close on Sunday for family worship. If you want your insurance to pay for birth control or abortion, this is NOT the company to apply at. Go to Michaels or Jo-Ann’s. PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY PEOPLE. Seems like a “duh” moment to me.

  • Charles Gilley

    I am so outraged that our Government would even think of such a thing as this, What kind of people do we have running our country? The said ending of the story is that the just suffer for what unjust people do in life, My prayer is God will intervene on Hobby Lobby’s behalf.

  • olivia virginia

    It would be nice if somehow we could take up a collection or gigantic love offering to help keep the Hobby Lobby afloat until all this gets sorted out….

  • Mike Grams

    In my book, you’re free to practice and abide by whatever religious beliefs you choose… Until it effects another’s religious views. I think Hobby Lobby should follow the mandate because according to doctor / patient confidentiality, it’s none of the employers business what services are preformed. Who is responsible for an abortion taking place? The patient? The doctor? The insurance company? Or the employer? Its not the furthest removed I can assure you. How is it any different what the employer is forcing on the employee. Versus what the govt is forcing on the employer. Hypocritical to say the employer knows whats best for the employees.!

  • Debra Pitts

    Tell me something CONCRETE we can do! (other than pray, because that’s a given.) List organizations we can support. How can we make our voices heard where it matters most? Finally, “Faith without Works is dead!” – DO something! I’m tired of discussing…tell us how to ACT!

    • Denny Burk

      Dear Debra,

      The difficulty is that only a rearguard action is possible at this point. Many of us were sounding the alarm on this early in the year (I did a number of posts on this), and no one seemed to care. The President won the PR war and the country believed the lie that the GOP was trying to ban birth control. That’s never what this was about, but it was what the country believed. As a result, when the country had a chance to do something about this legislation in the last election, they reelected the President and a Democratic Senate. Now there’s absolutely no chance that Obamacare will ever be rolled back. That battle is over, and we lost. There’s nothing to be done about it.

      The only hope now is that the Supreme Court will rule that the HHS mandate is unconstitutional. There are a number of cases in the pipeline right now. Some of them are winning. Hobby Lobby, however, is losing. This will probably eventually end up at the Supreme Court. As far as I can tell, the main thing to be done right now is to raise public awareness and hope that the courts will rule our way. We’ll see.

      Are there any other concrete things that voters can do? Again, I think our options are limited. The Beckett Fund for Religious Liberty is handling the case. Perhaps a contribution to them would be in order. You can contact your congressman and Senators, but there’s nothing they can do either. This is the law of the land and can only be rolled back by the courts at this point.

      A new president can direct the department of health and human services to revise the mandate to accommodate religious liberty concerns. But we won’t get another crack at that until 2016.

      Elections have consequences, and now we all have to live with them.

      Thanks for reading.


      • Debra Pitts

        I cared! I voted against the “Obamanation” and encouraged everyone I met to do the same! The election was about more than birth control…it was about “what can you (Romney) give me (that I don’t have to work for)? Obama will give me more!” I was shocked to be in the minority in a country founded on Judeo-Christian values. I did not want to believe the majority of Americans are “lovers of pleasure more than lovers of God”, but I guess that’s where we are. Sad!

        Thank you for the response.

        • Tony Berru

          Sadly Debra, the Church of Jesus Christ did exactly what the liberal segment of this country wanted…They failed to show up at the polls. Shame on the so-called body of believers in America! It took the apathy of Christians, those that didn’t think voting AGAINST a bad leadership group, was necessary, to put us all in this position of global weakness. We did it to ourselves! All the political double-talk about numbers and figures, making it sound like 16 trillion in debt was fixable by spending. Remember “Figures lie, and liars figure” is the mantra of those that want to own OUR hard-worked-for dollars. Healthcare/Obamacare/Welfare state, are all fleas on the same dog we called oppression and slavery in the past. Heck we even voted for it last November. Christians, remember your OT “God, we want a king, so we can be like other nations”. How’d that turn out?

        • olivia virginia

          You know, sometimes I understand how people say the US is no longer a Christian nation. When Christians themselves say that prayer is no longer the answer, we are truly in trouble! We say we believe the Bible. Jesus healed the sick, raised the dead, changed the heart of the Pharoah, but we cannot trust him to change the heart of our President, or heal our sick Cabinet, or raise our dead Judiciary! Our scriptures tell us an account in 2 Chronicles 7:14 of when Solomon built that beautiful temple, and he went to the Lord to bless it, and the Lord said, “If My people, who are called by My Name, will humble themselves, and PRAY and seek My face, and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and heal their land.”
          Friends, our country was founded on Christian principles, we know this. Men of God stood on these foundations and prayed that God bless this nation, and the Lord told them the same thing He is telling us now. Humble yourselves. Pray. Seek His face. Turn to Him.
          We brag that we are a Christian nation, and polls say that 85% of Americans claim to be Christian. If so, then why are we in such a state? I believe it’s because we have forgotten how to PRAY. We talk, and we discuss, and we complain, like the Jews wandering in the desert. And the Lord is patient while we ramble amongst ourselves, waiting to hear from us.
          You want a concrete solution to our problems? You’ve tried everything else. Let’s try a collective national concentrated all out worshipful prayer session. Ask the Lord to bless our nation like never before, and then worship HIm for the God that He is, One that will do it!

          I’m going to pray now. If you think you will be offended, please stop reading here.

          Dear Heavenly Father,
          You are the Almighty God! You are the All-knowing One! As our Creator, You have the Power to heal or to destroy, but we know You love us. You have from the Beginning of time! Please forgive us for being so proud and selfish in thinking that we could run this country without Your leadership. Please take our nation and make it Yours. Indwell our President, and make his heart become as Your heart. Thank you for loving us so much that You provided us with a Savior, Jesus Christ. And thank you for your Spirit, who enriches us daily with thoughts of You as we work hard for our families and freedoms and enjoy each others’ fellowships.
          Lord, we are having a big problem right now. You are well aware, and know all about it. We ask that You be with the Greens during this time. Lift them up and keep them strong. Provide for them and meet their needs as You see fit. Guide them to make the right decisions. Help Congress to sort out the Act to better meet the needs of our people. Guide the Judiciary toward a fair and just decision that will be pleasing to You. Keep them, the Greens, and the rest of us safe from harm. Bring calmness to our land so that we as a people can work and play together in peace. And Lord, please bless America.
          In Your most blessed and Holy Name,

  • Olivia Davenport

    As a Christian I am ashamed and embarrassed to see fellow “Christians” be disrespectful against a law that is being established. God has blessed us with a freedom of choice. It is our own choice,,,,which is evident here in an employee having a right to be covered by insurance and take a medicine if they choose. If the CEO, founders of Hobby Lobby and other employees choose not too…. that is their choice. Businesses have restrictions and laws they must abide by. This has been around since before our time. As Christians, how ignorant and defying it is to go against what is being established. I understand this medicine goes against their beliefs but they must follow the laws that have been made. Doing otherwise, or for those who believe otherwise, is going against what God has commanded us to do –

    “Obey the government, for God is the one who put it there. All governments have been placed in power by God.” Romans 13:1

    • Gene Jordan

      This business isn’t stopping any employee from access to any medication or procedures though. Hobby Lobby is only stating that they shouldn’t have to pay for medication and procedures that fall into the responsibility of the individual.

    • Gene Jordan

      While it is true that God has blessed us with freedoms, it is also true that this current administration is busy taking away as many of those God given freedoms as it can. Eventually, if left unchecked, it will get to one that you hold dear.

  • Nova Relles

    I find it mildly amusing that the company wants to cry “religious liberty” to avoid having to pay insurance on this issue. First, only a very small portion of it’s retail force is full-time and even receives health insurance. I personally was a cashier for Hobby Lobby, worked many full-time weeks, but was classified as part-time so that they would not have to pay me any benefits. They claim to be a christian company while the employees are treated like the devil. I could write paragraphs on how this was one of the worst employers I have ever experienced in 30 years of work. Where was the religious intent when you were dealing with the people in the store that were helping you make all the money? Don’t take the Lord’s name in vain when you have not shown yourselves, or run your business, as Christ would have you do.

  • Dennis Millier

    Sorry, but no employer gets to dictate their employee’s health choice, or religious beliefs for that matter. I’m sick and tired of abortion debate. If you don’t agree with it, don’t practice it. It’s as simple as that, folks.

  • Gene Jordan

    If the Federal Government were forcing Hobby Lobby to buy a firearm for each of their employees, the sound of the uproar would drown out any other story in the news.

  • Reggie Stafford

    What makes “Birth Control Pills” Ok, but not the “Morning After Pill” ? I don’t agree with either, but alot of Americans are making a stand against the latter and don’t feel anything is wrong with the first…..THEY ARE BOTH THE SAME….Many have used birth control pills without even thinking about it…….how many that do not beleive in birth control, be it before or after, have ever had their pets spayed or neutered? but that is ok? If you have, your messing with God’s plan of procreation, don’t you think?

  • Don B Kerley

    We are slowly walking away from our god given rights and allowing our principles to be compromised. A sculptor does not carve in a single hammer stroke. Instead, he removes the stone a flake at a time until nothing recognizable is left but that which he wished to be seen.

    We must stand for the rights of all or there will be none. Those who disagree are free to pursue other employment and the company would remain free to fail if not supported by like minded individuals. I would also hope that Hobby Lobby is as conscientious in selecting their suppliers.

  • Robert Poland

    As distasteful as it may be, let’s leave religious values out of the equation for a moment. The root problem is not about “Christian” moral agenda. It’s about big government interference in private matters and violating the U.S. Constitution in the process. Our federal government is in disarray and out of control. Our country’s leaders are morally bankrupt. They continually distract us with divisive issues like “abortion”, “gun control”, “illegal immigrants”, and “terrorist threats” while they nibble away at our personal freedom of choices. America is truly distracted & divided. Happy New Year.

  • Patricia Lush

    It is time that we as Americans realize that our individual freedoms are being attacked by our own government these days in the very same way that they were the day of Pearl Harbor 12/7/1941 by the Japanese government. It is without the blood shed of a War of course, but it’s still the same principle. We won that war because everyone put down their differences in politics, religion, etc… and came together here in this country. They recognized that as US citizens all of them were soldiers fighting either over seas or here at home to fund the war. They were Catholic, Baptist, Republican, Democrat, etc…. who stood in the trenches side by side because they recognized that we had to work side by side to win that war. They understood that they needed to be “AMERICANS FIRST” in order to preserve our country and our freedoms. No sacrifice was too great for those brave Americans for the sake of every last American living and those yet to be born no matter their religious views or politics. That is what the politics of our day has destroyed and why we are losing our freedoms….we’ve been turned against each other so we can’t win this war. Let us remember what the Lord said: Mat 12:25 And Jesus knew their thoughts, and said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand:

  • June Nors

    They were always paying for this. All insurance plans have a way that you can get an abortion. All you have to do is go to see them and they will refer you to a clinic that does it and then the insurance pays for it. And on the other side they are taking away their employee’s right to do what they see best for themselves. Who are they to inflict their belief’s on their employee’s. Do they know they probably have non christian people working for them. Oh my or are they discriminating against non christian people? Do you think they might have gay people working for them too? Oh my better check it out hobby lobby. And I love hobby lobby the store!!! Sorry they are not open on Sunday I go to church on Saturday.

  • Debi Fitz

    This is not the first time the government has penalized people for their religeous beliefs. About 8 years ago when the morning after pill was marketed as such, pharmacists where mandated to dispense it regardless of personal, ethical or religeous beliefs. If they did not comply, they were fined up to $10,000 per offense and had the potential to lose their job, their license which they went to school for 6 years to obtain and pass a board examination. It is like telling a doctor they have to perform abortions or they will lose their job and license to practice medicine.

    If you think this is the first time the government has told us what to believe in, then crawl out from under your rock, get your head out of the sand and wake up to the real world!

  • Jeff Duncan

    First, let me say that i love Hobby Lobby, Mardel, and the family involved. I have worked with them and seen the business ethics on display…

    Saying that….they have a choice. Comply or shut down. As “Christians” we (I am one) are to respect and obey authority.

    Is America a free place? No. Our government has diluted and corrupted the document our founding fathers put in place. Obama himself said that he wished the founding fathers hadn’t made it so difficult to do what he wanted.

    America elected a dictator, not a leader. He has no care of your civil liberties. He desires to impose his will at any cost.

    Should Obamacare be imposed on us? NO WAY…but, it is.

    It’s now a tax which Obama said it wasn’t…but it is.

    Freedom of religion is not grounds on why not to pay a tax, even if the tax is unconstitutional. I think the family should think about paying the tax until we can get a new president.

    • Elaine Fargo

      You fail to remember in the Bible in Acts ch. 5 the apostles were arrested and thrown in jail for preaching, but an angel of the Lord was sent and set them free from the prison. They were again brought to court and were given strict orders not to speak in the name of Jesus. Peter and the other apostles replied, “We must obey God rather than men! And yes they were talking about those in authority! We have to remember one thing, First and foremost we must obey the SUPREME authority first. I believe in submitting to authority, but not if it contradicts the law of God first. Peter and the apostles said it best, and who am I to say any differently, I will not exalt myself to do that.

      • Ed Evansw

        Yet even Paul and Jesus never broke any laws in their ministry to save people. That is the point of Acts 5 and Romans 13. We are to abide by the laws of the land. It is a dangerous thing to start interpreting what you think the Bible says and then say it is “God’s will.” This is exactly what the High Priests and the Rabbi’s did that caused the coming of Jesus in the first place. Because in their zeal to uphold the “law of God” they kept people out of the Kingdom of God. See Jennifer Evans’ comment (no relation to me) and understand the needs of people. If a business is to be taxed then the owner must pay the tax. If they can appeal and win the appeal then so be it. If they in their faith are run out of business because of their faith then their reward is great. Whatever happens, God will recieve the glory, but the rest of us must understand that our zeal for “God’s law” cannot come before preaching His word, His righteousness and living out the gift of grace and mercy that He gave us.

        • Elaine Fargo

          Elaine Fargo
          There is no misinterpretation there. It says it blatantly in this case! “Peter and the apostles were commanded to no longer preach in Jesus’ Name, and they were brought before the Sanhedrin to be questioned and the court gave them strict orders not to teach in this name, they said, you have filled Jerusalem with your teaching and are determined to make us guilty of this man’s blood, and that is when Peter HIMSELF and the other apostles (Acts 5:29) replied: “We must obey God rather than men!”
          (Those are not my words or interpretation, that was strictly quoted from what they said…nothing added, nothing taken away) They said it clearly and plainly. Then I quote in Acts 5:41,42 its says plainly and clearly, “The apostles left the Sanhedrin, rejoicing because they had been counted worthy of suffering disgrace for the Name. Day after day, in the temple courts and from house to house, they never stopped teaching and proclaiming the good news that Jesus is the Christ.” The court ordered them not to preach or teach in that Name, but they went out rejoicing and continued to do it anyway…not because they were rebellious no! It was Jesus’ last commandment that he gave that they obeyed: Matthew 28:19,20 “therefore go and make disciples of all nations baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age…so they had to obey God rather than men, They submitted to God’s word!

  • Shannon Nagelkirk

    From what I’ve seen on other forums, most people are 1. utterly convinced that somehow this is government keeping religious employers from banning contraceptives for employees, not forcing employers to pay for other people’s abortion, and 2. don’t care because they are not “religious” and think that those who are deserve this for trying to “shove their religion down our throats”.

  • Sally Meder

    I am horrified and furious at your comments concerning ‘catholics”, Dr. Willingham. As a Doctor of Theology myself in the Catholic Church I will say that it is comments like htis onoe that FURTHER the divisions going on this country right now, rather than allowing dialogue to occur. Many Catholics – and others – had VERY GOOD reasons to support President Obama, including an across the board concern for the right to life of ALL Americans, as well as the right to an education, health care, and decent housing and food. I will also add that you obviously know very little about Islam. Please don’t spread more of your hearsay and heresy until you get a better education. We would all appreciate that! Thanks.

    • dr. james willingham

      To Sally Meder: There are like Baptists, good Catholics and Bad ones. All one has to do is to google to find out there are Catholics who demonstrate such qualities, writing and blogging on the internet, and the same goes for Baptists, Southern and otherwise. I know of Catholics who are born again. I get email materials from the Vatican. One should tell the truth as one best understands it, regardless of whether it makes for popularity or not. I do not mean or intend to merely stir up trouble; I would seek peace by way of truth. Catholics threatened some of my members of a church I served once with physical violence, if they did not give up opposing a state school bus bill which most Catholics then supported (a few did not and said so). Now we have 6 Catholics on the Supreme Court, and the Court handed Hobby Lobby a set back to the religious freedom rights of the owners and their workers, all about pills that abort that which God calls by name in the womb. And the Judges are Catholics! Suggest you study the Jesuits and their links with the Masons, in the higher degrees that is and then take a look at certain wealthy individuals for whom such organizations can front. In any case, sooner or later, hopefully, the sooner, the stone cut out of the mount without human hands will smite the old image in its feet, utterly destroy it, and that stone shall become a great mountain and fill the whole earth, continuing for a 1000 generations so God can make the humorous remark of Rev.7:9. Yes, the whole earth and every soul in it along with millions of planets throughout the starry universe and their inhabitants of humanity having spread there, all for the next 20,000-1,000,000 years, to be savingly converted for the glory of Christ.

  • Linda Taylor

    When, I see, all the Christians in this great country being willing to help pay for all the children who end up on the streets, in orphanages, or worse, then, I will believe they are truly Christian. It takes $287,000.000 dollars to rear one child, not including college. Anyone out there willing to pay up?

  • Alan Hinkel

    Our freedoms are going to continue to diminish under Obama. It is sad that a company can’t operate using their own morals. It would be like Obama telling Chick Fil A that they have to open on Sunday. This isn’t like Janet Reno fining Microsoft a million a day for having a Monopoly. A business should be able to enforce it’s beliefs. Government is getting way to big. Is this how Obama is going to balance the budget. This is getting out of control. What’s next. Companies are going to have to pay for Vasectomies? If the company doesn’t want to pay for this because of religious reasons. It shouldn’t have to. Maybe they can go to the Health Department instead of Hobby Lobby paying for the pills.

    • Elaine Fargo

      Elaine Fargo
      If it’s so trivial, you needn’t have to reply. If the employees are not happy with where they work, they can seek other employment.

  • Dennis Millier

    So many silly things have been written during this conversation that it is hard to know where to start, but allow me to try:
    1. Christianity is, at its best, about compassion – especially for those who are suffering (and it is hard to imagine a woman, contemplating abortion, who would not be suffering emotionally, and perhaps physically); Christianity is NOT about self-righteousness, much less penny-pinching, yet the tone or substance of many previous comments is quite harsh, and miserly, if not misogynistic.
    2. We are talking about people acting in the marketplace as a business – not about monks or a religious entity – so it is very appropriate (to answer the question asked at the very beginning of this discussion) for Hobby Lobby, as a business, to comply with the law as a business. (If the question were: Can somebody force Mr. X, owner of a business, to believe that the sign of the cross must be made with two fingers instead of three, or that the nature of Christ was both man and god, not just god, — or whatever detail of theology or religious practice one might wish to use as an example — then, as good Americans, we’d have to say, “NO,” you cannot force Mr. X to follow certain rituals or to claim he believes something he doesn’t. The case of Hobby Lobby here has nothing to do with that sort of thing.)
    — I might add that one commentator’s point about Hobby Lobby probably buying goods made in the People’s Republic of China (hardly known for religious freedom), does raise a basic question as to the credibility of the “moral” stance the owners of Hobby Lobby seem to be taking with respect to a U.S. law…
    3. Some other fundamental problems here are:
    a) Many writers seem to presume that life begins at conception; eliminate this presumption and many of the pseudo-theological issues folks have shouted about, above, go away;
    b) The healthcare system in the U.S. might be more properly described as a “health business” system, where the object seems largely to ensure that insurance companies make lots of money, but basic prevention programs – prevention of diseases via vaccination, prevention of obesity, etc… – take second place. Complicating this sad picture is the fact that insurance coverage, or lack of it, is linked to one’s employment (or lack of it) — why, as a society do we accept that? Do accidents and diseases cease just because one is unemployed? Does this nearly iron-clad linkage between what a company might offer and an individual’s healthcare options really make sense, especially from a Christian perspective?
    4. The anti-U.S. government tone to many comments (e.g. one suggestion that the Supreme Court has committed “treason”) are badly misplaced – indeed disquieting – for several reasons, including:
    a) like it or not, the laws are passed by our elected representatives and signed (at the federal level) by the president; some respect for the law is required of us all, if we are not to have a totally dis-functional nation. (The example of Lebanon – torn by sectarian differences – is not, I hope, a model some of you would prefer.)
    b) again, like it or not, some of your tax dollars are probably going to things you (or I) might find morally objectionable. (Remember the recent war in Iraq? Perhaps you’ll recall some on the “religious right” who were all for it — well, where is what had been the longstanding Christian community of Iraq now?) Simply put, it is just not practical for the Hobby Lobby folks, or you, or I, to insist that this or that dollar of ours go only to this or that morally acceptable activity by our local, state, or federal government. We must insist that officials act reasonably and ethically, but as mature adults we should know that in a democracy we must be both realistic and reasonable, as well as tolerant (of others’ religious and political views).
    5. Don’t worry – be happy.

      • olivia virginia

        I fail to understand why people here keep bringing up products made in China as a reason to question Hobby Lobby’s morals and ethics, when everyone here buys things made in China. Until the people in upper levels of economic management that made this stupid decision choose not to trade/reduce trading with China or (in effect) sell our American businesses to them, stores will continue to sell products made in China, and YOU will continue to purchase them. Stop being hypocrites and please take this element out of your arguments against Hobby Lobby. It just isn’t reasonable, and distracts from the real issue.

    • Wayne Lacey

      Well said. Reasoned and thoughtful, and nicely balanced. You’ve pretty much encapsulated just about everything I would have wanted to say on the subject.

    • Elaine Fargo

      You have no idea about what true Christianity is, Wow That’s ridiculous.
      First get a grasp of the Bible in context and then you will sound logical, for real. I’m not mad, I’m just saying let’s have some true knowledge first.

  • Stephen McCormick

    The problem is that we (they) are treating this as an issue of religious liberty. Call it what it is. Abortion is murder. The owners of Hobby Lobby are refusing to participate in retail murder of innocent children.

    • Roy Fuller

      Fertilized human eggs are not children. A fertilized egg does not yet possess a brain which is developed to the point of consciousness, and thus do not possess one essential element of “personhood.”

      • Elaine Fargo

        Elaine Fargo
        Yes the genes for the human developing are already within the fertilized egg, if it were not, the cells that continued to grow would not turn into a full size baby. Life does happen at conception, I guess that’s why some people call it such a miracle. God said he knit you together in your mother’s womb!

        • Roy Fuller

          To say, as so many do, that “life begins at conception” is to not address the real question which is: what are the necessary/essential elements of personhood? Most people seem to agree that a functioning brain, at least at minimal levels, is a necessary element of a human person. When a person who has suffered a traumatic brain injury ends up in what is referred to as a vegetative state – meaning very minimal brain activity, and not at a level that is associated with normal human consciousness, such as person is often removed from life support by loved ones. This is often done with the justification that “they are no longer themselves.” In other words, people recognize that a functioning brain is an essential element of personhood, and when that is absent, as in the case of head trauma, brain disease, etc., they have lost something essential. I would argue that the same status is true of a fertilized human egg. Yes, the genes are present, and given the proper conditions, such an egg will develop into a person, but brain development occurs weeks later. There is a debate about the exact point, but all agree that it is not at the point of fertilization.

          • Elaine Fargo

            Elaine Fargo
            Where you have missed it is you are talking about a brain of a dying person, on the contrary this human is only developing, not dying! There is a huge difference between life and death by farrr!!!!!

  • cathy crenshaw

    It’s just a shame the way some people treat GOD’S Children. The Devil is really working over time trying to tear down GOD’S work and people, But we know in the end GOD and his ANGELS WILL WIN THE BATTLE. We’re PRAYING for you HOBBY LOBBY . GOD BLESS YOU ALL ….

  • Becky Milliner

    And the persecution of Christians via their businesses begins…it has been foretold. Fight the good fight, H.L. Our prayers are behind you.

  • Joanne Beange

    Why doesn’t everyone email their elected representatives and the President and let them know how they feel. Millions of responses to this issue won’t go unnoticed, let me assure you the voters.

    • Elaine Fargo

      Elaine Fargo
      Well said!!!!!!!!!!!! Let’s all take some time out of our personal schedules and do this!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Remember it is we the people, for the people, and by the people…it is not a dictatorship, but if you want something done in this country it will happen if people respond…it is we the people, for the people and by the people, sometimes we forget that and think it’s a King’s decision alone…Oh no, no, no…let’s put our constitution into practice, We Can Do It!!!!! 🙂

  • Jo Gragg

    I am so disgusted, with our govt right now, and I am frightened. This I am afraid, is just the beginning, of all of us being told what to do! God help us!

  • Mary Ellen Hartman

    Mary Ellen Hartman
    Murphy, TX

    Obama will personally stand before God for this (as well as many other) blasphemy!!!

  • James

    If you do not live by God’s Law you end up living with the rule of the Devil.

    Hitler was democratically elected.
    Enjoy Obama and his minions while you can.

    When they came for the Jews I said nothing, when they came for the,cripples ,the infirm, the handicapped I said nothing, while they aborted millions I said nothing, when they came for the Catholics I said nothing. When they come for me, who will be left to speak up.

    Trouble is coming folks

  • Frank Goodwin

    It is getting close to the conditions that brought about the “Boston Tea Party” Freedom loving Conservatives will need to stand up, be counted, and rebel if necessary against not justy Obamacare but against Obama and his minions.

    • Elaine Fargo

      Elaine Fargo
      You know that’s really true! Why do you think we broke off from England in the first place, YES, it was for religious freedom.

  • Sarah /farry

    As I see it, the government is trying to take the high ground on this. As a Christian, life does begin at conception (for me anyway), but as an employer it is not my business to decide that for every employee. It is as the old saying goes, you can bring a horse to water, it doesn’t mean he will drink. Having contraceptives available does not mean they will be used. In not offering those options, it in turn steps on the employees freedom of religion.

    • Elaine Fargo

      Elaine Fargo
      Your opinion doesn’t hold water with them, they can run their business as they want and uphold their principles. If that’s not what they want to pay for because it goes against every conviction of theirs, then so be it…they don’t support it, point blank! If others don’t like it, no one is forcing them to be a part of their business, they can go else where. There is freedom in America and they can choose to go elsewhere if they don’t like it.

  • Karen Bugg

    Wow, then we wonder why this world is in such crisis!! Wake up! We have taken GOD out of what we stand for today. Last time I checked this is GOD’S WORLD!! He made creation and politics are destroying it! God will return and each of us will stand before him and be accountable.. I praise Hobby Lobby for keeping God #1
    Many prayers to our world ,
    Karen Bugg

  • Nancy Faulkner

    I think any businessman should be able to hire whoever he pleases and be up front with what he expects, He decides how much he can pay you and what benifits he can offer. If you want the job on those conditions…fine. If not you decline. The government should not even be in the middle of his business. The government should get out of individual liberties. Also America has freedom of Religion….not freedom from religion. Our country was built on religious freedom. Do you know that church was held in the early years of our and many leaders were ministers? We have a freedom to worship as we please and no one or no government should try to take this freedom. Also no one who chooses not to worship should be made to, but those who choose to should be able to!

  • Kristin Hasty

    Kristin Hasty
    I am with Dr. Willingham, I feel like a revolution is in order. Our govt is far to corrupt to think they have our interests in mind. We have become an amoral, principle absent, self centered country and we can not expect that people are going to vote to uphold our Constitution, that was founded upon Godly principles. Everyone thinks they have a “right” and wants things that are not really due to them. I don’t expect that someone should provide me or my family anything that we did not work for. Our lazy, unwilling people are only empowering our Govt. (Guaranteed votes) Wake up America or Communism is in your future!!!!

  • Jim Koverman

    Defying the Bill of Rights, our current government is trying to cross lines as much and as far as they can, and to a corrupt end. America was never meant to be filled with so many godless attitudes when created by our forefathers. Too many of today’s leaders were molded over decades. Many were children when God was taken out of their classrooms in 1963, and a number of those children have now grown up to be our leaders. Through the years leaders of all ages have had the misfortune of being polluted with a lax attitude toward illegal drugs, free love and viewing constant violence through TV, movies and video games.

    Now our leaders turn their head from abortion related products and work to force firms like Hobby Lobby to commit the gravest of sins and give them to employees! It is like saying, if you want to abort a child you might carry, we are for it! Here you go!!

    It seems separation of church and state is the law of the land, until the law of THIS land feels the temptation to abort it just like our children!!! As Edmund Burke so wisely put it, all that is necessary for evil to succeed is that good men do nothing. Please share with other good men and women; with all Christian Soldiers and people with a soul wherever you find them.

    • Red McGinnis

      Look into Wallbuilders .com They and their lawyers are proving that separation of church and state is not correct winning almost every case.

  • Red McGinnis

    “It has ever been my opinion, and I hope it will ever be, that restraints on conscience are cruel in regard to those on whom they are imposed, and injurious to the country imposing them.” Lawrence Washington, (Georges big brother)

  • Cindy Ingram

    Again, Green is an excellent marketer and is looking forward to more cash on Saturday when you shop there thinking you are supporting religious freedom from gov’t intervention. Could YOU profit by doing business with China where infanticide and abortion are SUPPORTED? Seriously, try to put yourself in that situation and see if you don’t get a slight TWINGE of conscience at the least.

    • Olivia Virginia

      *Brushes massive logs off Cindy’s shoulder….there’s that’s better…:)

      Cindy, laws such as OSHA are there make sure safety is maintained in the workplace, to protect people against injury and sickness. You cannot compare the two. As to the Greens’ marketing excitement about these sales, I doubt that they will be raking in enough funds to cover the $1.3 million DAILY they need to support their stand against this measure.
      Personally, I do not buy any products that say “made in China” unless they are reshopped (thrift stores), I’m sure Hobby Lobby has SOME items there that are not made in China….

  • Kristin Link

    This is what happens when we live in a world where there is absolutely no personal responsibility anymore. Everything is someone else’s fault. You wouldn’t “need” an abortion if you weren’t pregnant. You wouldn’t be pregnant if you used birth control. And last time I checked, there are a plethora of other birth control methods other than birth control pills. Sex potentially = babies. I learned this a long time ago in elementary school so I don’t understand why people who don’t properly protect them themselves and decide they don’t feel like dealing with the responsibility of being a parent, think other people should be responsible for their situation. Do I understand there are certain gray areas such as women who were raped or women with unexpected health complications during a planned pregnancy? Yes – and I’m not here to tell those women what decisions to make. But the VAST MAJORITY of women getting abortions are not these women and could have easily prevented their pregnancies. If you couldn’t bother to purchase a pack of condoms for a few bucks, I don’t think you should be asking anyone but yourself to pay for your abortion if that is what you “choose” to do. And last time I checked the condom box does tell you they are not 100% effective . .so if you really, really don’t want to get pregnant, then you should probably take two preventative measures instead of just condoms. Again – stuff I learned in middle school. Not rocket science folks.

    • olivia virginia

      Actually, John, I read several years ago where some newly formed democracies were using our Constitution as a model for their own constitution. At the time, I felt honored. Now I’m not so sure….I pray they don’t muck it up as we have.

  • Whitney Carlson

    It’s scientifically proven that contraception is not the same thing as abortion. Just throwin’ that out there…

  • Bridget Golob

    Is this the only Christian business in the country that is experiencing this?? Surely there must be other Christian businesses out there who are standing their ground against Obamacare and abortion. How about if Evert Christian gave a little bit of their hard earned cash and sent it to Hobby Lobby so they found pay the government that ridiculously high fine until they can settle the matter in court. Remember what happened in “Its a Wonderful Life”?

  • Harry Buck

    No one’s asking them to change thier beliefs. Just to abide by the law. There are many laws that run contrary to my beliefs and when I break them, I pay a penalty.

  • Debi Blake

    I believe if I were the owners of Hobby Lobby, I would just throw up my hands and close all of the stores. I’m sure they’ve made enough money to last them a life time. And why make any more? They are then taxed in the higher brackets and higher on the inheritance tax. Then let the government figure out how they are going to find jobs and health care for all of their laid of workers.

  • Joe Bunda

    I guess everyone here would be fine then with a Jehovah’s Witness business owner refusing to pay for medical coverage that includes blood transfusions, or a Christian Scientist business owner providing medical coverage that only covered treatment by Christian Science Practitioners, or a Scientologist employer refusing to provide coverage that included psychiatric care. It’s the same thing, right? Employers imposing their religious beliefs on their employees? The fact that these folks consider abortion to be a crime against God does not make it a crime anywhere else. Legal medical procedures should ALWAYS be a private matter between a person and their physician (and unfortunately, of course, the insurance carrier) and while employers need to know how it will affect an employees ability to do their job, the exact nature of an employees medical treatment is none of their damn business.

    • Jaci Greggs

      It’s none of their (employers) business, but they should be forced to fund it or face government penalties? That’s not exactly consistent.

      • Elaine Fargo

        Elaine Fargo
        Call it what you may! It is illegal to force someone against their religious beliefs to pay for other people’s murder. Let them pay for it themselves!!!! Just as we don’t pay for old people’s murder, calling it compassion….as Dr. Kavorkian did and was thrown in jail for it before!!! Get Real!!!!!!

      • Elaine Fargo

        Elaine Fargo
        Call it what you may! It is illegal to force someone against their religious beliefs to pay for someone else’ murder! Even as Kavorkian was murdering old people under the guise of compassion, he was thrown in jail! Get Real man!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    • Elaine Fargo

      Elaine Fargo
      OH YES IT IS!!!!! Let them privately pay for it themselves then!!!! When you die, you will finally realize against your greatest beliefs or unbeliefs, that God is the greatest authority, even higher than the land, so whether anyone is looking or not, it will always be a crime!!!! Yes, we are accountable before God!!!! And yes it does effect them, they shouldn’t be forced to pay for anyone elses’ murder, let their blood be on their own heads and wallets, not on ours!!!!!!! Well, it’s a good thing your mother didn’t ABORT YOU! You would have kissed this whole conversation goodbye and your girlfriend or your wife!

  • Matthew Smith

    Hobby Lobby owners have not lost any rights. They may still freely express and practice religion. Since operating a arts/craft store is not mandatory, they can voluntarily close to avoid penalties for violating employer laws. Besides, the idea that oral contraception causes abortion rather than the prevention of pregnancy is misinformed.

      • Matthew Smith

        Your Conclusion, “Taking into account the best scientific research and laboratory tests, the FDA still says that morning-after pills can prevent human embryos from implanting”

        is somewhat of a logic leap from “However, no scientific evidence indicates that prevention of implantation actually results from the use of these methods. Once pregnancy begins, none of these methods has an abortifacient action. The precise mechanism of intrauterine contraceptive devices is unclear. Current evidence indicates they exert their primary effect before fertilization, reducing the opportunity of sperm to fertilize an ovum..”

    • Elaine Fargo

      Elaine Fargo
      Call it what you may! It is illegal to force someone against their religious beliefs to pay for someone else’ murder! Even as Kavorkian was murdering old people under the guise of compassion, he was thrown in jail! Get Real man!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    • Elaine Fargo

      Elaine Fargo
      Your talking out of the side of your mouth…they haven’t lost anything, they can voluntarily close down, HAH! That’s only losing their whole business for being violated for their religious beliefs. Obama does not force the Muslims with his new agenda, because of their beliefs…eh hmmm.
      Call it what you may! It is illegal to force someone against their religious beliefs to pay for someone else’ murder! Even as Kavorkian was murdering old people under the guise of compassion, he was thrown in jail! Get Real man!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • Joy Felix

    Do Christians care that much of the stuff for sale comes from sweatshops engaging in unethical practices overseas? I am curious as to why Hobby Lobby, which uses such factories, albeit, through a middle-man, but contributes to unethical overseas work including shops that use bought workers is so adamant about a theoretical pill rather than a proven problem? Are they out to truly save lives or just prove a point?

    I am curious why Ten Thousand Villages, a Christian Fair-trade importer has said nothing about the Healthcare Mandate? Is it because we as humanity all pick our battles? Is the perception of one cause “liberal” and the other “conservative” so one should be picked over the other? Or is it because one affects the pocketbooks of Americans and so we actually have opinions while the other affects faceless people on the other side of the globe with whom we feel no connection? Is the command “love my neighbor” only applicable to the neighbor I see?

  • Jill Wilson

    First of all, the ACA (commonly referred to as Obamacare) does NOT cover abortions. Secondly, Hobby Lobby has requested an injunction so that they do not have to provide contraceptives through the health insurance they offer to their employees.

  • davecumming777

    Denny, it is truly gratifying to see your response. Here in South Africa, we have our religious freedoms guarded much more rigidly. There is far more freedom of conscience. As a doctor I have far more freedom to refuse to perform an abortion. I’ve also just read that Congress has just passed a law that enables the police to detain suspects without trial – aimed at terrorists but it does not stipulate that so by implication they could theoretically detain anyone without trial indefinitely. The last time this was used was by the Apartheid Government during the height of Apartheid here in South Africa. Obama is slowly eroding constitutional freedoms in the USA. My American friends living here in South Africa don’t want to go back to the USA because they feel safer here than there.

  • Bonnie Nichols

    Would it be appropriate for employers to give their employees a certain amount of money with which they could choose their own insurance?

  • Doughlas Remy

    Doughlas Remy:

    As a corporation, Hobby Lobby must abide by generally applicable laws. The religious scruples of the company’s founder do not qualify it for exemption from these laws.

    How would you feel if a Muslim bought a company in, say, Georgia, and declared that employing infidels would be a violation of his religious principles? What if he fired all his Christian employees and brought in bus-loads of Muslims from Michigan? Would you expect the Supreme Court to uphold his right to do this?

    How would you feel if a group of company owners were to form a religion called The Church of God Without Borders so that they could hire undocumented workers?

    How would you feel about a company whose founder and CEO refused to pay corporate taxes because his religion forbade him to render anything at all unto “Caesar”?

    What if you were a strict Calvinist and believed workers should not be paid overtime? Would you expect the government to give you a pass?

    • Elaine Fargo

      Elaine Fargo
      You obviously don’t know what your talking about! The Muslims are exempt from Health care laws because of their beliefs! Oh yes!

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