The Second Debate and an Election Prediction

By this time next month, Senator Barack Obama will be the President-elect of the United States. Barring some catastrophic and unforeseen mishap, I think it is all but certain that Obama will win. Nothing happened in tonight’s debate that will change that fact.

Pay no attention to the nationwide polls that come out almost daily. Because we elect our president through the electoral college, the only polls that matter are the state-by-state polls. The bottom line is this. Obama is leading in the battleground states that will decide the election, and the trend lines are going against John McCain in those same states.

It takes 270 electoral votes in order to win the election. Obama would have 264 electoral votes from states that generally poll in his favor. McCain would only have 163 electoral votes from states that poll in his favor. That only leaves 111 votes (8 states) where the polls are too close to call. McCain would need to grab 107 of those votes to win, and Obama would only need 6. Right now, the polls slightly favor Obama in nearly all of the toss-up states. Here’s how the electoral map currently looks according to RealClearPolitics.com:

All of this bodes ill for those of us who regard the abortion issue as paramount. After Obama wins the presidency, he will almost certainly have the opportunity to appoint 2 to 3 Supreme Court Justices—Justices that will prolong the pro-choice majority that currently rules the court. So it appears that the immoral regime of Roe v. Wade—a regime that has presided over the deaths of 50 million babies since 1973—will continue for the foreseeable future.

We won’t see many opportunities in our lifetime to shift the majority of the Court on this issue. I’m sad to say that it looks like we’ll miss this one.

91 Responses to The Second Debate and an Election Prediction

  1. Sandy October 8, 2008 at 6:09 am #

    Denny,
    You can call me Pollyanna, but I can’t believe that it is over until the fat lady sings….and she ain’t done it yet!!!!

    I will pray until I hear her mournful dirge, because in reality it will be the cries of millions of babies, along with the sorrowful wails of the women who must live with their irreversible choices. America can change its name to Ramah because “A voice is heard in Ramah, mourning and great weeping, Rachel weeping for her children and refusing to be comforted, because her children are no more.” (Jer.31:15)
    sbgayle

  2. Truth Unites... and Divides October 8, 2008 at 6:14 am #

    Sadly, I have to agree with you Denny. It’s the same prognosis that I’ve had for the last 2 weeks.

    And I actually think it’s going to be grimmer in another area too. I think Proposition 8 in California, the amendment to define within the State Constitution that marriage is between a man and a woman, will probably fail. If/when it does, gay marriage will be exported from the most influential state in the Union to other states. And the same 2-3 liberal judges that Obama appoints to SCOTUS will also weigh in on that issue at the federal level.

    But God is still good, and He is still sovereign. Win or lose, we remain faithful and abide in Him. He has the last word and He guarantees final victory!!!

    Hallelujah and amen!!!

  3. Michael Wilson October 8, 2008 at 7:31 am #

    If you are interested in an overview of the latest polls I can recommend you to have a look at this widget.

    http://www.youcalc.com/apps/1221747067033
    The widget shows the election polls by strength of states over time.

    … and its easy to put on your blog and fits in your sidebar!

    Make a difference, keep on voting!

  4. Brent Hobbs October 8, 2008 at 7:58 am #

    Don’t give up too soon. Remember how the state polls often said that Obama had a huge lead on Clinton and she actually ended up winning? Many people said Clinton was out of it but it ended up being far more competitive.

    As for Roe v. Wade… you are right about Obama winning meaning at least several more decades of dealing with that horrible decision. But lets not place all the blame on this election. 5 of the last 7 presidential terms have been held by pro-lifers. That’s 20 of the last 28 years. If the first Bush had not chosen David Souter, we would likely have already been able to overturn Roe. Reagan also chose Kennedy and O’Connor, neither of whom would overturn Roe.

    Pro-choice presidents chose pro-Roe justices. And Pro-life presidents did all too often as well.

  5. Don October 8, 2008 at 8:59 am #

    From the media reports (which is mostly liberal) and the polls it does look like Obama will win, but it is still a month away and we will see. When I went to a VA rally with McCain/Palin there was a loooooong line to get in. And Obama accepted over $100K from Fannie/Freddie.

  6. Barry October 8, 2008 at 9:05 am #

    I am not so sure about this prognosticating. Wasn’t Bush down to Kerry by a few % at this point in 2004? Americans love an underdog.

    One thing that is particularly disturbing to me is that in all three debates so far (2 Pres, 1 VP) there has not been a single question about abortion. Not a single one. There was one or two about gay marriage. This is not a dead issue, but you wouldn’t know it from the questions that the moderators choose. That tells you more about the moderators than anything else. Even so, McCain-Palin should have turned the discussion there at some point.

    Barry

  7. Ryan October 8, 2008 at 9:26 am #

    Is it really helpful to “declare” Obama as the winner? Denny, your blog is popular and the only thing this does is discurage voters from going out to the polls.

  8. Mark Gibson October 8, 2008 at 9:42 am #

    My theory is that Tom Brokaw intentionally kept the debate boring to help Obama. I feel like I watched a repeat of the first debate but this time they didn’t use podiums.

  9. Paul October 8, 2008 at 10:24 am #

    As I’ve said many of times, do not underestimate the power of racism in this country.

    A combination of that and the Bradley effect will deliver you a president that thinks that helping the middle class is giving them a $19 tax break and that it’s cool to tax your health insurance.

    Congratulations!

  10. brian October 8, 2008 at 10:41 am #

    Your being a “Denny Downer”
    wah wah

  11. Darius October 8, 2008 at 10:42 am #

    Paul, Obama wouldn’t be where he’s at if he was white, that’s a fact. So don’t underestimate the power of liberal white guilt.

  12. John October 8, 2008 at 11:04 am #

    Denny,

    I’m just afraid you’re wrong for some reason. I think that there are too many people in this country who won’t vote for a black president and who believe many of the nasty rumors about Obama. I am very pessimistic about him winning and I personally still think McCain will win (even though I don’t want him to). Polls have been proven wrong in the past and I think they will this time as well. Personally, I think the your outlook may be a little different if Palin weren’t the VP nominee. She did more harm than good for the ticket.

    As for the abortion thing, I highly doubt it will be as significant as you say (it usually never is as significant as fear-mongers say). You seem to be adopting the method you condemned in your last post (fear-mongering).

    In any case, I still think McCain will win, I can just feel it in my gut. He’s an old, experienced, rich white guy against a young, inexperienced black guy. American may have come a long way since 1950 but it hasn’t come that long.

  13. John October 8, 2008 at 11:07 am #

    And by the way Denny, to be such a strong Calvinist who believes so strongly in the sovereignty of God, you sure are an open-theistic wimp when it comes to politics. Suck it up and start acting out your theology.

  14. Mark Gibson October 8, 2008 at 11:12 am #

    Will the Bradley effect be cut in half since Obama is only half black?

  15. Derek October 8, 2008 at 11:27 am #

    John,
    With all due respect: if anyone in this forum is stuck in the past, it is you.

    Also, if there is any Bradley effect, it is going to be outweighed by record turnout from dead people, dogs, convicted felons and Acorn (a heavily active group with a track record of fraud & election tampering).

  16. Caroline October 8, 2008 at 11:35 am #

    So, maybe we shouldn’t even get out and vote. There just isn’t a chance….

    OH BUT WAIT!

    GOD is sovereign and HE can change this election if it is HIS will.

    Unfortunately, posts like this will cause people to become disheartened and just give up.

  17. Darius October 8, 2008 at 11:39 am #

    Mark: haha.

    Derek: exactly.

    John, I hope you will please come on here and apologize for calling Americans racist if and when Obama wins. Considering that we’re the least racist country in the world, you are amazingly stuck in the past. As I just said to Paul, there is no way that Obama would be getting more than 40% of the vote if he was fully white, instead of just half white. Liberal white guilt has carried him quite far in this election, and may even get him the presidency. No fully white candidate with his pathetic resume would have stood a chance against McCain.

    As for Palin, you obviously hang out with liberals, because all the conservatives I know have been very much enthused and more passionate now that she is in the race. Obviously, she makes you left-wing liberals hate McCain more, but you all were never going to vote for him anyway, so she didn’t hurt the ticket.

  18. Caroline October 8, 2008 at 11:50 am #

    Another thought…you said that you pay no attention to polls that change daily. Well, Denny, how do you know that Obama has the battleground states under his spell. Could you have looked at the polls?

    Can you tell that doomsday people make me angry?

    😉

  19. Ken October 8, 2008 at 12:14 pm #

    John, would you please clarify your statement in #13 above? I don’t see the connection between Denny’s theology and his prediction that Senator Obama will probably be elected as president.

  20. Branden October 8, 2008 at 12:18 pm #

    I always enjoy the “If Obama isn’t elected it is because the USA is a bunch of RRRRRRRacists!”

    That sure is a great shortcut away from actually thinking.

  21. Branden October 8, 2008 at 12:23 pm #

    You know, come to think of it, If McCain is not elected then it is because you hate old people, want to kick them when you can, and you like to steal the food off their plates as they eat at Lubys.

  22. John October 8, 2008 at 12:25 pm #

    Darius and Derek,

    I’m sorry you guys are so blind to not be able to see how racism is still alive and prevalent in our society (and every society on earth). You all can just keep telling yourselves that it’s the good ol days and we’re not like that anymore, but it just isn’t the case. Evidently you guys live sheltered lives, and I think you’re also misinterpreting what I said. I never said anything like “All Americans, every last one of them, are racist” – so no Darius, I won’t apologize. I said there are still racists in this country (don’t you agree with that? b/c you’re blind if you don’t). I admitted we had come a long way since the 50s, but in my opinion I don’t think we’ve come far enough. Sorry to hit a soft spot with you guys (who are probably white), but I’m just speaking from experience (and Paul says the same thing).

    I’m not stuck in the past about anything, Darius, and you’re the guy who says slavery was a good thing for current African Americans (an absurd statement, no doubt). Have you ever lived in the south? I went to a high school with 3 black people, and one community in the county had 0 black people. When they tried to make it interracial, some of the good ol white folk burned crosses and vandalized the black people’s houses…don’t tell me we still don’t have racism. “Least racist country in the world” – you’re blind pal! Where are the statistics for that one! Your comments actually lead me to question your own view of different races.

    You can keep telling yourself that it’s because he’s black that he got nominated. Whatever. Just don’t tell me many Americans are not racist (I hear comments about Mexicans, African Americans, and Indians almost on a daily basis from white people), and don’t tell me I’m living in the past. I honestly don’t know whether to take your statements serious or not. And you too Derek…with all due respect, sir.

    Palin didn’t hurt the ticket? Even Denny alluded to this! Her interviews were absolutely horrible! She did absolutely nothing to help the ticket, and if anything she has hurt it. Have you even been around for the last 3 weeks? Turn on something besides Fox news every now and then.

  23. John October 8, 2008 at 12:29 pm #

    Yeah Branden, that’s exactly what I said. Way to really observe sentence structure and interpret thoughts. I love generalizations and mischaracterizations from people who are sure they know anothers intentions. Your comment was ridiculous and I never said anything like that.

    Grow up and learn how to read and represent someone correctly please….mmm kay? Thanks.

  24. Brian (Another) October 8, 2008 at 12:38 pm #

    John:

    What, in Denny’s post, is not acting out a Calvinistic-based theology? Dr. Burk stated that RvW will not be overturned (which is an essential first step in at the bare minimum reducing* abortions, if missing the end goal of elimination). He stated that for those who see abortion as a transcendent value will not be satisfied with the next president (pessimistically looking at Obama). I think it follows (quite well) a Calvinistic theology as it recognizes that was ordained by God as was . It doesn’t demonstrate a lack of faith or a lack of trusting in God. I’m sure that Dr. Burk, myself and many others will continue to pray for the president come Jan ’09 as we do today.

    * – which, btw, even for those who push that we need to reduce versus try to eliminate, Obama has stated that he will not even begin to infringe upon RvW, so nothing will go into effect that will begin to reduce abortions (I think that abortion reduction is not happening b/c of sex-ed, imo).

  25. John October 8, 2008 at 12:41 pm #

    Ken,

    I said that about Denny’s theology b/c he’s all down about it and said, “We won’t see many opportunities in our lifetime to shift the majority of the Court on this issue. I’m sad to say that it looks like we’ll miss this one.”

    If he believes God is sovereign and has the power to take care of this no matter who the president is, then statements like this don’t need to be made. It’s just shocking that such a statement and such a belief like “As long as we, the people, vote the right person in office, we can get this thing done” can be adopted by such a hard-line Calvinist. Either way, I would expect him to say no matter who is president, God can accomplish this thing, if it be his will of course. He has had it all mapped out and pre-ordained from the beginning of time anyways, so lets just trust in that. Okay?

    The statement just seems very open-theistic, like how we vote determines the future, when really God has the future determined already, with or without our vote. Understand?

  26. CH October 8, 2008 at 12:42 pm #

    John,

    To suggest that Obama will not be elected just because he is black is absolutely ridiculous. Can you point to any shred of credible evidence to suggest that a significant number of people won’t vote for him for this primary reason? Hint: I said significant number, not any number.

    And don’t give me this, “I know racist people” excuse. Sure there are racist people in this country, that’s like pointing out that water is wet. But do they constitute a significant voting block to prevent Obama from becoming president? I don’t know how you could say that with a straight face.

    Also, if Obama is elected are you going to man up and come on this blong and apologize and admit that you were wrong?

  27. Nathan October 8, 2008 at 12:43 pm #

    John,

    Putting the racism issue aside, you have said in this post and others that abortion is really not a big deal.

    “As for the abortion thing, I highly doubt it will be as significant as you say (it usually never is as significant as fear-mongers say). You seem to be adopting the method you condemned in your last post (fear-mongering).”

    Could you clarify what you mean by that? Because I think 50 million babies murdered is a pretty big deal and as I stated on other posts, the DNC is committed to abortion on demand with no restrictions.

    How is this not a monumental election in that regard?

  28. Darius October 8, 2008 at 12:44 pm #

    Well, thanks for your emotionally-charged response. Please use facts and evidence next time, rather than emotion and assumptions. As Branden said, this is just a way to avoid thoughtful discussion.

    I am white (the only white Darius I’ve ever heard of, in fact), but that’s about the only assumption that you got right. I have lived in the south, but am wondering what decade you did. You say that the story you mention happened when you were in high school. How long ago was that?

    As for my statement that slavery was probably a good thing for current blacks of African descent, you keep ripping on it without ever telling me why it is absurd. For some of us who like real debate, just because the absurdity is prima facie to you does NOT mean that it is to the rest of us. So enlighten me, why are blacks worse off today than if they had been left in Africa? I am guessing you must not know your African history or much about what today’s Africa is like, so I will tell you. Africans are dying of starvation, genocide, AIDS, and liberal white guilt (via stupid Western aid programs) by the millions every year. Most Americans of African slavery descent have it quite cushy by comparison. So, it follows for those who can follow logic that slavery, while awful for most black slaves, has actually improved the lives of today’s African Americans, which means that they most definitely do NOT deserve reparations for their ancestors suffering. Please refute my point prior to ripping on it anymore.

    Again, Palin mostly has only hurt herself in the eyes of liberals who would hate her if she were the most experienced, knowledgable VP candidate in history. The conservatives I’m around every single day know that she has not been great in those two interviews, but they also have all agreed that the media has blown them way out of proportion. For example, look at the full transcript of the Gibson interview and you’ll see how ABC edited it to make her look much worse than she actually did. A month ago, most conservatives I know were not very enthusiastic about McCain. Most of those same conservatives now are quite pumped for the McCain-Palin ticket.

  29. CH October 8, 2008 at 12:46 pm #

    John,

    You really need to read up on your Calvinism. Believing in the sovereignty of God does not negate that we grieve over evil and injustice. Denny is fully within his theological tradition to express sadness at this pervasive evil and the potential opportunity to fix it that will be missed if Obama is elected president.

  30. Darius October 8, 2008 at 12:50 pm #

    What CH said, exactly my point.

  31. Joe October 8, 2008 at 12:50 pm #

    John, relax a bit and try to be mature in your responses. Yes, there are still some racist people in this country. But remember racism isn’t just white against blacks, it goes all ways. And Obama is probably gaining more votes because of his race than he is losing them.

  32. Darius October 8, 2008 at 12:51 pm #

    Nathan, John has made it quite clear in the past that 50 million babies is no big deal to him, at least compared the BIG issues like health care or whatever floats his boat. Since we have diametrically opposed moral value systems, we can’t really discuss that issue.

  33. Darius October 8, 2008 at 12:52 pm #

    #28 Oops, what CH said in his first post, not his second.

  34. Darius October 8, 2008 at 12:53 pm #

    Regarding Calvinism… if we were to live out Calvinism like you are suggesting John, we wouldn’t even get out of bed or ever get upset about anything. This is neither practical nor Biblical.

  35. Paul October 8, 2008 at 12:56 pm #

    “I always enjoy the “If Obama isn’t elected it is because the USA is a bunch of RRRRRRRacists!””

    It’s only a half-truth.

    If Obama loses because people in the exit polls say…

    “he’s pro-choice”

    “he’s too liberal”

    “I don’t like his stance on the war”

    “I don’t like his stance on education funding”

    then fine. He lost on the issues, and while I might not agree with a more conservative stance on the issues, I have to deal with the fact that we live in probably the most conservative first world nation on Earth. Okay.

    But if people aren’t voting for him because he’s black, has a muslim name or any of the other stupid things said about him, then it’s only because we still have enough ignorant and backwards people around to carry an election, and all of us, conservative and liberal should ALL be offended, if that’s the case.

    completely different subject:

    after last night, I think that John “that one” McCain should dump Palin and get Ross “you people” Perot to be his running mate.

  36. John October 8, 2008 at 1:02 pm #

    CH,

    No, I won’t apologize for anything I’ve said b/c I haven’t said anything wrong. I said, in my opinion, that I am pessimistic about Obama winning b/c I think there are too many people (that doesn’t mean a majority of the people in the country, it just means a significant amount of people that could make a difference) who feel uncomfortable with a black president with a lot of rumors about him. Can you point me to any evidence that says this isn’t the case? I have lived in the south all my life, and that is my evidence (I rarely see “evidence” on this blog, and think it’s funny how 4 people have called me out for not documenting when I said something they didn’t like, seeing that they never give evidence for their OPINION). I know how many white people in the south think about black people. My grandfather, who has voted democrat his entire life, is voting for McCain this time because Obama is black. I’ve spoken to many others as well about this. I clarified from the get-go this is my opinion, and I am entitled to it, so get off my back please…mmm kay? Thanks. So if McCain is elected, are you gonna man up and come on here and apologize to me?

    Nathan,

    I mean that the impact of Obama being president vs. McCain being president will not be as significant as Denny alludes it to being. That’s what I meant. I didn’t mean abortion isn’t a big deal (because it is). I have never, ever, ever said that on this post or others, so please do not misrepresent me. I think abortion is perhaps the single most significant injustice possibly in history. Now do you believe I think it’s a big deal? I just don’t put any hope that the Republicans will do anything about it, because in the past when I’ve counted on them they’ve always let me down. Sorry if you don’t see it like that…but I do, and I refuse to be “used” any longer.

    Darius, MY “emotionally charged response”? Go back and read your first response to me and tell me it wasn’t emotionally-charged. I haven’t seen one fact or shred of evidence that you guys have used to prove me wrong. Speck, meet log. So don’t call me out on evidence when you haven’t provided jack. This is a blog, not a research paper, and we don’t have to back up our opinions with a fox news article every time we say something (none of you guys do this, so why do you call me out for it). I clarified from the beginning that this was my opinion, so grow up and just let it be. I think your opinions are completely ridiculous Darius, but seldom do I call you out for them in the manner you guys are doing to me right now just b/c I struck a nerve with you all about racism. We live in different parts of the country, and my part is much more racist. Maybe if you were black you wouldn’t feel the same way, ever ask yourself that question?

    And by the way, high school was 6 years ago, and it’s still the same way there today. Thanks for playing, try again.

  37. Darius October 8, 2008 at 1:08 pm #

    Paul, really, you’re going to make a big deal out of “that one?” Leave that to the stupid media, it is below you.

  38. John October 8, 2008 at 1:09 pm #

    Darius,

    I will no longer interact with you again on this blog. My reason for this is because you have blatantly lied and misrepresented me by saying that I said abortion is not a big deal. I have never, ever, ever, ever said such a horrendous and barbaric thing. I hope you can see the wrongdoing in this situation. If I said you don’t think rape is a big deal, I would hope you would kind of be hurt too. We look at politics differently, and you need to grow up and realize that we are still brothers in Christ and he is our bond, not political systems. We both hate abortion (of course, you think I like it and it’s not a big deal), we just disagree with methodologies. I am amazed how sometimes I see you being so civil and then can make a comment like the above one you made concerning me. I admit, you hurt my feelings by it and I honestly can’t believe where you would get such an idea or how you could have the heart to say such a thing. I apologize if I have done anything to offend you over the time I have been commenting, and I thought all of this was getting better, but I cannot dialog with someone who so misrepresents and distorts another’s views. Good day.

  39. Truth Unites... and Divides October 8, 2008 at 1:13 pm #

    Denny wrote a good post: Don’t Feed the Blog Trolls

  40. John October 8, 2008 at 1:15 pm #

    TUAD,

    Denny wrote that about you. The irony is that everybody recognizes that EXCEPT you! Now that’s funny.

    I admitted I had been guilty of some of that behavior in the past, and I apologized for it. I don’t see how any of that pertains to the current discussion, so thanks for playing, but try again.

  41. Lydia October 8, 2008 at 1:15 pm #

    I am very uncomfortable with Obama but not because he is black. I would vote for Condi anyday for Prez.

    I am still trying to figure out how a one term junior senator, with no big bills or leadership on anything, got the money for the primary and general election. Most of these people spend years building war chests and have been around for a while.

    Who is this guy? Is he a result of George Soros?

    I cannot imagine 4 years of a president who actually hates his own country and listened to Wrights damning it from the pulpit for 20 years. Scary times. Or one who saw the gory details of the born alive bill and opposed giving medical care to aborted babies born alive but put in the soiled laundry room of Christ Hospital in Oaklawn, Ill to die. Wright was on the board. Obama was the point man in opposing this bill..not once but twice. He is a barbarian. What next, unproductive old people?

    But, if the Lord wills it so, then it will be. We get the leaders we deserve.

  42. Nathan October 8, 2008 at 1:16 pm #

    John,

    That’s why I asked for the clarification. And I don’t believe I misrpresented you. I quoted your statement and asked for you to respond.

  43. Darius October 8, 2008 at 1:17 pm #

    John, your “part” of the country is also one who would never vote for Obama even if he was fully white instead of half white, so that won’t affect the election.

    “Maybe if you were black you wouldn’t feel the same way”… Again, let me reiterate, this is not about FEELINGS but about reality.

    Also, way to continue to ignore my challenge to address the slavery topic.

    “… high school was 6 years ago.” That explains a lot. 🙂

  44. Truth Unites... and Divides October 8, 2008 at 1:19 pm #

    I think Denny wrote that blog post for everyone’s benefit, including, and even himself.

  45. John October 8, 2008 at 1:19 pm #

    Thanks for asking for clarification Nathan. I only said you misrepresented me because you said that I had said that in the past as well (which Darius said that too, and I am still trying to figure out where I said that). I’ve never said that, but I appreciate you asking about something I wasn’t very clear on.

  46. Darius October 8, 2008 at 1:21 pm #

    John, I’m sorry I hurt your feelings, but I will let you correct me if I’m wrong, but did you not say in response to the post(s) about Obama’s support for infanticide that it wasn’t changing your opinion, you were still going to vote for him? If so, then you obviously don’t care much about abortion (or lack the ability to connect the dots between the presidency and abortion on demand). Even Paul, the village liberal, said that he could not vote for Obama after reading about his support for infanticide. If I am wrong about what you said or your voting intentions, correct me and I will apologize. Otherwise, your words about being against abortion are as empty as Obama’s suit.

  47. Derek October 8, 2008 at 1:21 pm #

    Folks, don’t believe John and others who would lead you to believe that the Bradley effect is due to racism. The Bradley effect is largely due to political correctness. That is, when a person is put on the spot to pick between and black and white candidate, they suspect it might be a trick question and the safe answer is to say they’re voting for the black/minority candidate, especially if they still haven’t made up their mind.

    And don’t believe them for a second when Obama supporters imply that only racist white people and Asians enter the polling station with race in mind. Many people vote with race as a factor. And that includes the estimated 96% of blacks who will vote for Obama. It also includes the large number of people of all races who will vote for Obama not because they think he is the most qualified candidate, but because they believe that it is time for America to stop electing white men.

  48. John October 8, 2008 at 1:31 pm #

    Darius,

    I believe the infanticide thing has been severely misunderstood by people with an agenda to portray Obama as the anti-Christ. Did you know that he actually voted FOR a revision of the law? I thought everybody had kind of moved on from this issue anyways since Obama has clarified himself 100 times about this. Just because I would vote for Obama doesn’t mean I’m for abortion (I don’t know why conservatives don’t seem to understand this). I just think it’s a logical fallacy to say that if I vote for Obama, that means I could care less about abortion. That’s like me saying if you vote for McCain, you’re greedy, could care less about social justice or the environment, and don’t give a rip about others getting health insurance. Come on, seriously. I wouldn’t make that connection with McCain voters. I just think about the issues differently than you. I am against abortion, but in my lifetime the Republican party has hardly made a dent in the issue and I feel used by them.

    Basically, you can’t judge a persons beliefs and convictions by the political candidate they vote for, and I believe that’s exactly what you have done with me.

  49. Darius October 8, 2008 at 1:32 pm #

    Exactly Derek. On another blog, I tried to bring up the idea that 96% of blacks voting for Obama because he is black is no less racist than some whites who won’t vote for him because he isn’t white.

  50. Derek October 8, 2008 at 1:35 pm #

    John- Quick question: what would you think of a candidate who supported slavery?

    The reason I ask is that 150+ years ago, there were many people who called themselves Christian and said, “I don’t believe in slavery, but it isn’t a big factor for me and for how I vote”.

    The slavery issue was very polarizing for Christians, just as the abortion issue is today. Some Christians saw it as a defining issue that trumped policy views on taxes, immigration, etc. But a surprising number of Christians found the abolitions too divisive and controversial.

    I look at it this way. I would hope that my great-great grandparents were in the former category, because they were right. And I think our great grandchildren will think that we held a surprisingly tolerant view of evil, if we say that we oppose abortion but still vote for and support candidates who take money and make promises to Planned Parenthood.

  51. Nathan October 8, 2008 at 1:38 pm #

    John,

    In Denny’s Oct. 7th blog, “Does Pro-life Law Make a Police State Society?”

    Your post in that #3 insinuated (at least I thought it did) that you saw the abortion issue as inconsequential.

    You stated in that post that “I think the vast majority of Americans are against abortion, both Democrat and Republican, but we just have different ideologies as to how to tackle it.”

    I responded in post #6 asking for you to clarify, citing polling data that disagrees with that statement, and you never did, hence the reference to “other post.”

  52. Darius October 8, 2008 at 1:41 pm #

    By his voting record and rhetoric, Obama has made it quite clear that he is not just pro-choice, but pro-abortion. He intends on overturning the CONSTITUTIONAL Partial-Birth Abortion Ban as soon as he gets into power.

    The difference between me saying you don’t actually care about abortion because you vote for Obama and you claiming that I am greedy and don’t care about poor people or health insurance is that McCain actually is none of the above, while Obama really doesn’t care about killing millions of babies. In fact, statements like “babies are punishment” and his radical left-wing policies indicate that he probably wishes there were more abortions. This would be consistent with his worldview, which states that humanity is the problem, and that this world is overpopulated.

    Meanwhile, McCain has shown that he is not driven by greed and actually does have a plan to help people afford health insurance. And social justice has nothing to do with justice, nor does it help those you liberals want so desperately to help by running their lives.

  53. Darius October 8, 2008 at 1:50 pm #

    John, please give a straight and honest answer to Derek regarding slavery, I am interested in how you would answer that question.

    “I am against abortion, but in my lifetime the Republican party has hardly made a dent in the issue and I feel used by them.”

    First of all, as you have already indicated, your lifetime has been quite short. And when you say “lifetime,” I am guessing you mean the years in which you cared or were aware of political issues (probably 10 years or so, voting in at most 2 elections). Not a lot happens in 10 years, you may want to be a bit more patient. However, some big things have happened since Bush was elected in 2000. The big and obvious one is his nomination of two pro-life judges to SCOTUS. Due to those nominations, he passed a Partial Birth Abortion Ban which held up under legal scrutiny, something that would not have happened if Gore had been president. Bush has also promoted pro-life policies throughout his administration, which has helped nudge the country in the right direction. Imagine where we would be at if Gore had won? Gore believes that the environment matters more than humanity, thus he promotes policies that would endanger millions of third world poor. He also was very much pro-choice. A president doesn’t just affect policies, he also sets the tone for the hearts and minds of those in the society around him.

  54. Derek October 8, 2008 at 2:06 pm #

    For whatever reason, I’ve heard a lot of Christians say what John is saying, that Bush and the GOP hasn’t done anything about abortion. That’s interesting, because Planned Parenthood, an abortion rights group says the opposite. Here’s what PP President Gloria Feldt said about Bush:

    We must stop the Bush Administration’s war on choice. This administration has no respect for the medical privacy or fundamental rights of women. There’s never been a more frightening time for the future of reproductive rights. The Planned Parenthood Action Fund will make sure that pro-choice Americans know exactly what’s at stake in this election.

    When Bush went on to nominate Supreme Court justices Alito and Roberts, the pro-abortion groups regarded these nominations as the most serious threat [in history] to Roe v Wade.

    I have a lot of differences with George W. Bush, but it isn’t fair or accurate to say that he hasn’t done anything to confront Roe v. Wade or more specifically, partial birth abortion.

  55. Paul October 8, 2008 at 2:15 pm #

    Darius in #34:

    I thought it was disrespectful. Nothing more, nothing less. But, if between that and McCain’s refusal to even look at Obama in the first debate, the media decides to start painting McCain as the latent racist, well, then McCain made his own bed and he sold them the rope.

    As for Lydia, let’s go point by point:

    “I am very uncomfortable with Obama but not because he is black. I would vote for Condi anyday for Prez.”

    Good for you. Condi’s the only one in that cabinet that seems to have both a soul AND a brain.

    “I am still trying to figure out how a one term junior senator, with no big bills or leadership on anything, got the money for the primary and general election. Most of these people spend years building war chests and have been around for a while.”

    Lydia, meet John Kennedy.

    Not to mention, I guess you forgot about the fervor that built up around Obama after that speech he gave in 2004. I had friends THEN that were talking Obama ’08. I had no idea that they were serious. But, anyway, you speechify like that, especially in times like these, and you’ll get people excited. And, probably about 45% of the voting public is excited. Unfortunately, that leaves 55% of the pie to McCain after the Bradley effect kicks in.

    “Who is this guy? Is he a result of George Soros?”

    Well, I can’t answer you that, but I CAN tell you that modern day McCain is the result of a waffle maker.

    “I cannot imagine 4 years of a president who actually hates his own country and listened to Wrights damning it from the pulpit for 20 years.”

    This is the stuff that’s infuriating. You can be a liberal and love your country. As a matter of fact, I would say that the real patriots are the ones who stand up and question authority when they think authority is wrong. And unless you were at every single sermon that Wright preached over the course of 20 years, that last statement is a cowpie, and you know it.

    “Or one who saw the gory details of the born alive bill and opposed giving medical care to aborted babies born alive but put in the soiled laundry room of Christ Hospital in Oaklawn, Ill to die.”

    Oak Lawn is two words. Sheesh.

    The rest of that point I’ll give you.

    “Wright was on the board.”

    Proof that comes from a legitimate source? That one’s laughable on so many levels that I don’t know where to start.

    “Obama was the point man in opposing this bill..not once but twice.”

    Okay, he’s more pro-choice than NARAL. We get it.

    “He is a barbarian.”

    Fine. No more so than Dubya, who signed into Texas law a bill that allows the state to pull the plug on vegetative patients who can’t foot the bill (basically the Terri Schiavo’s of the world without the court settlements). If killing off innocent people is the makings of a barbarian, then call out ALL of the political barbarians by name.

    I’ll be waiting for the post where you call W a barbarian.

    “What next, unproductive old people?”

    How about whiny egalitarians?

  56. Branden October 8, 2008 at 2:16 pm #

    John Says:
    October 8th, 2008 at 1:02 pm
    ….Can you point me to any evidence that says this isn’t the case? I have lived in the south all my life, and that is my evidence…

    I have lived in the South all my life, and my anecdotal evidence is just the opposite of your evidence. The South is full of good and decent people, not full of racism as you try to paint it in your bigoted and biased view….Your bigotry/bias against the South notwithstanding.

  57. John October 8, 2008 at 2:18 pm #

    I have too many questions to answer! I currently have too much to do to get to them all, but Darius, I have never seen or read Obama hardly say anything you accuse him of, and until I do I can’t believe you. Also, so Bush gets a partial-birth ban (which everybody agrees is horrendous), but gets us in a messy war where thousands upon thousands have died in the past few years…not very pro-life. Regarding slavery, I am unfamiliar with the political history during that time and how Christians thought and reacted. I don’t even know if they viewed the president as the primary means of annihilating the problem, so I need to know more history before I would tell you my opinion. I think it’s tough to compare it to the modern day because it was 150 years ago and things are different today. I don’t see anything comparable to the underground railroad, which leads me to think that Christians really don’t care much about it or are not willing to make a sacrifice other than vote for the supposed “pro-life” candidate. The rhetoric doesn’t match up with the action, and in my opinion their hope lies in the wrong place.

    And when I say lifetime, I mean my entire life. Honestly, since 1973 nothing significant has been done. We all know that even if Roe v. Wade does get overturned, it gives the power back to the states, so getting an abortion, even if it were illegal in your state, may be just a short 3 or 4 hour commute to a neighboring state, so it’s not like it’s going to abolish the problem, agreed? Decrease it? Maybe, but maybe it can be decreased by other means other than judicially. I’ll type more later, I have to go and get some things done.

  58. John October 8, 2008 at 2:20 pm #

    Branden,

    There you go misrepresenting my views again. I never, ever said that every person in the south is racist. I’m saying racism is still alive in the south. I never said there weren’t good people in the south.

    Nevermind

  59. Darius October 8, 2008 at 2:33 pm #

    “Also, so Bush gets a partial-birth ban (which everybody agrees is horrendous)”

    WRONG, Obama believes this ban should be overturned. So everybody EXCEPT the person you believe should be the next president knows evil when they see it? You have an odd taste in presidents.

  60. Branden October 8, 2008 at 2:34 pm #

    John Says:
    October 8th, 2008 at 2:20 pm
    I’m saying racism is still alive in the south.

    And it is alive in the North, the East, and the West. As I believe was noted by someone else here, you might as well have said that water is wet. Or maybe that sun shines.

    You are not being misrepresented. You are being pinned down and you don’t appreciate being called on your offensiveness.

    By stating that your living in the South is evidence of other than an anecdotal variety and proves Obama possibly won’t be elected because of racism is a fictional narrative you have invented. It is excuse.

    This does reveal how you view the South…it is a place where people don’t vote for the black man because he is black…not because they disagree with his views.

    If you don’t wish to paint the South that we, then don’t say you know racism because you live in the South. Plenty of us Southrons do not appreciate your denigrating of our home.

  61. Darius October 8, 2008 at 2:35 pm #

    “I don’t see anything comparable to the underground railroad, which leads me to think that Christians really don’t care much about it or are not willing to make a sacrifice other than vote for the supposed “pro-life” candidate. ”

    You really do live in a cave in Alabama, don’t you? They’re called “crisis pregnancy centers” and they now outnumber the abortion mills. And guess what, Christians run and support almost all of them.

  62. Darius October 8, 2008 at 2:40 pm #

    You know, John, it’s becoming clear that you are likely living on a KKK plantation and have never ventured outside its confines. I honestly don’t know how you are so ignorant of this country in which you live.

    That said, I think we can all agree that LSU fans are bottom of the barrel. 🙂 j/k

  63. Derek October 8, 2008 at 2:46 pm #

    John,
    I hope you do a little research on the abolitionist movement. They faced a surprising amount of opposition by many fellow Christians who felt that they too were irrationally focused on the slavery issue.

    The number of people who worked on the underground railroad was not huge. I don’t have numbers in front of me, but I am confident that the number of Christians who are working in the area of adoption and crisis pregnancy centers far outnumbers those who were working on the underground railroad. Feel free to look up some numbers on this, but I think you’ll be surprised to find out that a lot of Christians are working and not merely waiting for legislation.

    Regardless, at the day, this is and should be more about principle than it is about numbers and pragmatism.

    Anyway, John- you strike me as a reasonable person who can be persuaded by good arguments. Thats why I’m trying to give you a little bit of context and history, from the viewpoint of someone who has been very engaged in pro-life issues for many years.

  64. Lydia October 8, 2008 at 3:11 pm #

    Just a few points:

    “Lydia, meet John Kennedy.”

    Obama does not have a rich daddy. He also is not a part of the Boston elite from whom to garner large donations. No, it is something else, entirely.

    “Not to mention, I guess you forgot about the fervor that built up around Obama after that speech he gave in 2004. I had friends THEN that were talking Obama ‘08. I had no idea that they were serious. But, anyway, you speechify like that, especially in times like these, and you’ll get people excited. And, probably about 45% of the voting public is excited. Unfortunately, that leaves 55% of the pie to McCain after the Bradley effect kicks in.”

    Yes, it was very ‘messianic’. Scary.

    “Well, I can’t answer you that, but I CAN tell you that modern day McCain is the result of a waffle maker.”

    Actually, his wife.

    “his is the stuff that’s infuriating. You can be a liberal and love your country. As a matter of fact, I would say that the real patriots are the ones who stand up and question authority when they think authority is wrong. And unless you were at every single sermon that Wright preached over the course of 20 years, that last statement is a cowpie, and you know it.”

    I have listened to enough of his anti Christian diatribles to last me a lifetime. He preaches marxists liberation theology while riding around in limo’s. He is typical of what Booker T Washington was so against in black preachers. The church is afrocentristic. Worship of Africa. Just take a look at their website. Where is Jesus Christ?

    “Oak Lawn is two words. Sheesh.”

    Where babies were left to die in the soiled laundry room. Obama heard the gory details and it moved him not. He was the point man in the Ill legislature to oppose giving these babies medical care. not once. But twice. He knew. See Hebrews 10: 26-31 to see how very serious this is. He should fear.

    “Wright was on the board.”

    Proof that comes from a legitimate source? That one’s laughable on so many levels that I don’t know where to start.”

    The nurses from Oak Lawn who testified before the Ill legislature and in the Federal hearings. They also knew Obama went to church with Wright and were concerned that the bill was being railroaded.

    “Obama was the point man in opposing this bill..not once but twice.”

    Okay, he’s more pro-choice than NARAL. We get it.”

    NO. He is a barbarian who cares nothing for BORN BABIES. Why do babies being left to die in soiled laundry rooms not outrage you? Why are you willing to give Obama a pass for knowing the gory details and still willfully opposing giving them medical or even comfort to die????

    “He is a barbarian.”

    Fine. No more so than Dubya, who signed into Texas law a bill that allows the state to pull the plug on vegetative patients who can’t foot the bill (basically the Terri Schiavo’s of the world without the court settlements).”

    Prove it.

    “I’ll be waiting for the post where you call W a barbarian.”

    Let us be clear, babies born alive are left to die.

    “What next, unproductive old people?”

    “How about whiny egalitarians?”

    Are you advocating my death?

  65. Paul October 8, 2008 at 3:41 pm #

    Lydia,

    there was more twisting and turning in that post than I did in my yoga routine this morning. You can’t be serious.

    1) Obama getting donations from people: uhhh, it happens. People have ALWAYS been inspired by some good speechifyin’. No different here.

    2) Obama being messianic: talk about paranoia. It was a good, and inspiring speech. It caught people’s attention.

    3) McCain being a waffle-boy: show me one issue on which he still holds the same view that he held two years ago.

    4) Wright’s “anti-Christian” diatribes: how many of them did you hear? Where did you hear them? Website? Link? Something tells me that you’re going to point right back to the same three or four sermons that caused such a stir in the first place. You’ll need more proof than that.

    6) Wright on the board of a hospital: link? website? Something more than just hearsay?

    7) Proving that Bush hates innocent life too: It’s called the Futile Life Law. From the washington post:

    “In Texas, compromise legislation was negotiated, passed and signed into law by then-Gov. George W. Bush.”

    Let us be clear: one of the victims of that bill was a 17 month old that I am certain didn’t want to be left to die.

    So, Lydia, I’m waiting…

    Basically, what I am getting at is this: if you want to battle Obama on the issues (and the Born Alive Act is an issue, I’ll give you that), then great. But if you’re going to whine about how other people think he’s messianic, then please, for the good of us all, don’t vote. Leave the voting to those of us who have studied the candidates, which you have not done, except where it supports your conspiracy theories.

    8) Lydia’s inability to ever comprehend a joke is still intact.

  66. Lydia October 8, 2008 at 4:03 pm #

    Paul, If I spend 3 hours or 3 days (whatever it takes) getting the info about Wright (pre-everything-on-the- internet) will you promise NOT to vote for Obama? Your word of honor?

  67. Darius October 8, 2008 at 4:06 pm #

    He’s already not voting for Obama.

  68. Derek October 8, 2008 at 4:11 pm #

    Lydia, I don’t think you’ll find any clips of Wright going on “anti-Christian” diatribes. You will however, find him taking Scripture out of context and even distorting its meaning, though. The reason for this is that liberation theology, which Wright unapologetically espouses, is a Marxist movement that uses Christ as a prop for a larger political agenda.

  69. Paul October 8, 2008 at 4:13 pm #

    As Darius said.

    Actually, between Obama, McKinney, Nader, Barr and McCain, I think I really am going to write in Louis Armstrong for president. Even the third party candidates in this election are horrifying.

    (before anyone yammers on about wasting votes, I will remind them that I live in a state that will easily go 60-70% for Obama)

    What I really want is…

    1) Lydia to proclaim W the barbarian that he must be according to Lydia’s own conditions.

    2) actual real proof that Wright is on the board of Christ Hospital in Oak Lawn.

  70. Matt October 8, 2008 at 7:11 pm #

    Dr. Burk,

    I concur with your analysis. If the election were held today Obama would win by 5-7 percentage points in the popular vote and have an electoral landslide. McCain’s campaign is directionless and, as far as I can tell, a betrayal to the type of conservatism he was described as upholding at the RNC. Republican candidates climb uphill these days more than ever before. Not only do they have to beat the Democrat but also the mainstream media. McCain is failing miserably on all fronts.

  71. Matt October 8, 2008 at 7:13 pm #

    As a follow up, what I’m more concerned with at this point (since I believe the presidential election is over) is the scary possibility of Democrats getting 60 seats in the Senate.

  72. Denny Burk October 8, 2008 at 8:23 pm #

    I am holding a comment from an anonymous commenter in my moderation queue. Whoever you are, you’ll have to attach your name and a valid e-mail to your comments before I let your remarks through.

    Thanks,
    Denny

  73. Jesica October 9, 2008 at 6:31 am #

    Now, wouldn’t it be some massive standing stone we’d get to erect if God chose to move on the hearts of man, and sway this election at this late date?

    I’m not giving up hope.

    I won’t utter the words “Obama will be our President”…we’ve still got 25 days….the Jews in Sousa were saved after only 3 days of fasting and praying…we’ve got 25!

    I’m going to keep praying and begging God not to let Obama be named our Commander in Chief. I’m going to cry out to Him for mercy once again!

    And if it should happen that God does raise up McCain and tear down Obama, I will erect a standing stone in my yard…so that to all whom ask, I will be able to say….”This is what the mighty hand of the LORD God did for us here in our land.”

  74. John October 9, 2008 at 9:25 am #

    (rolls eyes)

  75. Matt October 9, 2008 at 9:26 am #

    (also rolls eyes)

  76. CH October 9, 2008 at 12:06 pm #

    John,

    You wrote “No, I won’t apologize for anything I’ve said b/c I haven’t said anything wrong. I said, in my opinion, that I am pessimistic about Obama winning b/c I think there are too many people (that doesn’t mean a majority of the people in the country, it just means a significant amount of people that could make a difference) who feel uncomfortable with a black president with a lot of rumors about him.”

    You still haven’t provided a shred of evidence other than “your feelings” or that you know racist people.

    “Can you point me to any evidence that says this isn’t the case?”

    You were the one who made the assertion therefore the burden of proof is on you. But to answer your question, yes, based on the fact that there isn’t any evidence for it. You would think that something this substantial would show up on the polling radar.

    “I have lived in the south all my life, and that is my evidence”

    No that is your conjecture and baseless assertion.

    “I know how many white people in the south think about black people. My grandfather, who has voted democrat his entire life, is voting for McCain this time because Obama is black. I’ve spoken to many others as well about this.”

    How do you know that your personal experience is the norm and not the exception? You are making an assertion of a very large number of people from all over the country based upon your personal experience. C’mon this doesn’t even pass Logic 101. So I suppose if everyone you know loves The Crimson Tide that means everyone does.

    “I clarified from the get-go this is my opinion, and I am entitled to it, so get off my back please…mmm kay?”

    Sure you’re entitled to your opinion, ridiculous or not. But don’t pretend it carries any weight.

    “So if McCain is elected, are you gonna man up and come on here and apologize to me?”

    I’m not voting for McCain or Obama so that is neither here nor there to me. But the fact that you would still need to show that if McCain won he did so because of racism leaves me little reason to worry.

  77. Branden October 9, 2008 at 1:39 pm #

    Came across this on Obama and the born alive issue:

    (person’s name) is referring to a “born alive” Illinois bill that did not pass in the Illinois state Senate in 2005 and had previously been opposed by Obama because he said it undermined Roe v. Wade, according to FactCheck.org, a non-partisan organization. A federal version of the bill, which Obama said he would have supported, passed by unanimous consent and was signed into law by President George W. Bush in 2002.

  78. Derek October 9, 2008 at 4:55 pm #

    The Gallup organization is validating part of John’s point by demonstrating that Obama’s race will hurt him with some voters. However, the same report also reports that even more voters are likely to vote FOR Obama because of his race:

    http://www.gallup.com/poll/111049/Obamas-Race-May-Much-Plus-Minus.aspx

  79. Paul October 9, 2008 at 5:09 pm #

    Derek,

    inherent flaws in that poll:

    1) the Bradley effect: that is, people that say that they’ll vote for a candidate because it might make them look bad if they didn’t.

    2) basing the poll in a state that almost always votes democratic (New Jersey) is flawed as well. What I want to see is how that pans out in Wyoming, Texas or West Virginia.

    To say that race won’t be an issue in this election is to be just as naive as to say that issues are going to matter in this election outside of the niche groups.

  80. Darius October 9, 2008 at 5:15 pm #

    “always votes democratic”

    Yes, because we all know that Democrats aren’t racist.

  81. Derek October 9, 2008 at 5:48 pm #

    Paul,
    Where does it say that only people in New Jersey were polled? I don’t see that anywhere in the press release. Gallup is one of the most reputable polling organizations out there, so I’d be pretty surprised if they limited their polling to one state – unless the poll was paid for by a NJ group/political organization.

    I already said in post #47 that it is naive to think that everyone will enter the polling booth in complete colorblindness.

    7% of white voters say Obama’s race makes them less likely to vote for him. But 6% of white voters say Obama’s race makes them more likely to vote for him. And among nonwhite voters, Obama’s race is a significant net plus.

    The impact of McCain’s race among nonwhites, on the other hand, is -8 points. Among whites it is +4.

  82. Paul October 9, 2008 at 5:58 pm #

    Derek,

    first paragraph, they mention Princeton NJ. They do not mention anywhere else that they polled. That does leave doubt in one’s mind that they might have polled anywhere else.

  83. Brian (Another) October 9, 2008 at 6:14 pm #

    Paul,

    C’mon, now. Gallup national polls are phone polls (as it states in the Survey methods at the bottom) across the country (which it states in the “how polls are completed” in other areas on Gallup). The NJ remark is where the guy (Frank Newport) who wrote the story is. You can say his view on what this means is slanted, but the results are not from NJ only (actually, they have an interesting description of the method of national polling in their FAQ’s if you have a moment or two).

  84. Darius October 9, 2008 at 6:59 pm #

    Plus, don’t forget about the liberal racists like Biden who support Obama because he’s a “clean and articulate for a black person.”

  85. Paul October 9, 2008 at 7:01 pm #

    That’s right.

    Whenever you can’t win an argument, slime the opposition.

    McCain knows this tactic all too well.

  86. Darius October 9, 2008 at 7:16 pm #

    Biden said, you can’t deny it.

  87. Paul October 9, 2008 at 7:30 pm #

    I won’t.

    But it’s still a case of “when you can’t win an argument, slime the opposition.”

    And I don’t see you denying THAT.

  88. Darius October 9, 2008 at 8:16 pm #

    I’m not involved in any argument, I just wanted to bring up the group you’re ignoring or pretending don’t exist. Brian and Derek have done a very good job of debunking your points, so I’m staying out of it.

  89. disputatio October 10, 2008 at 10:14 am #

    Clearly McCain doesn’t believe the abortion issue is paramount. Nor does he believe the issue of Supreme Court justices is paramount. (There is no reason to believe that Mr. Gang of 14 would appoint originalist judges bent on overturning Roe.) Nor do most Americans believe these issues to be paramount. Evangelicals got played once again. Wake up! Some trust in horses, some trust in chariots…

  90. Derek October 10, 2008 at 11:01 am #

    disputatio,
    You’re right, that Christians should not place our ultimate trust in political leaders of any kind.

    However, I think I need to correct the record on something you said. McCain supported both of Bush’s excellent, strict constitutionalist Supreme Court nominations. The gang of 14 is an inside baseball, procedural difference in approach that McCain had with some pro-lifers.

    Disputatio, there is a world of difference between McCain/Palin and Obama/Biden. Don’t lose the forest for the trees.

  91. Darius October 10, 2008 at 11:46 am #

    “Nor do most Americans believe these issues to be paramount.”

    Since when does the majority opinion make something morally transcendant?

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