The Halloween Debate

I just finished watching the Democrat Debate for President on MSNBC, and I think it will go down in history as the “Halloween Debate.” Why? Because some of the things that were said were downright scary. Not only did Dennis Kucinich confess that he believes in UFO’s, but he also claimed that he has seen one! We have a candidate for President who believes in UFO’s!

Now that’s spooky, but that’s not even the scary part. He also said that America should unilaterally disarm its nuclear arsenal because it would encourage Iran to stop seeking nuclear weapons. Why is this guy getting any time during what is supposed to be a serious debate?

“UFOs and Alien Life” – Chris Cillizza (Washington Post blog)

“Kucinich: ‘I did’ see a UFO” – Mark Silva (Baltimore Sun)

20 Responses to The Halloween Debate

  1. Matt October 30, 2007 at 11:24 pm #

    Denny,

    In your opinion, can a case be built from scripture in favor or against other “intelligent” life? Isn’t it possible that a God whose chief aim is to glorify himself has made other creatures in his likeness who are beyond our reach? I know this is merely speculation, but can we scripturally assert that this is impossible?

    I am by no means raising this question to defend Kucinich or the existence of aliens. I may be dead wrong, but I cannot really see in scripture a case to assert that other creatures made in His likeness cannot exist beyond our contact. Can you give me your thoughts on this matter?

    Thanks Denny!

  2. j razz October 30, 2007 at 11:40 pm #

    He also recieved direction from the craft he saw. (source cited here).

    My grandmother, who I have never had lie to me concerning things that did not involve bed time stories, said her and my grandfather were traveling home one night and saw something above timber near their house. No clue as to what it was but they turned around and got the neighbor who lived about a mile down the road and he saw it as well. They watched it go down into the timber behind their home and vanish. They said it did not make a sound and was very bright. They said it hovered for a while and went into the trees and just vanished. They told me this over 15 years ago and I asked her again about 2 years ago and she told me the exact same thing. Now, was that an alien craft or some man made thing I don’t know, but I do know that my grandmother did not lie about it.

    j razz

  3. Bryan L October 31, 2007 at 8:30 am #

    I think it’s interesting how a question like the historicity of the resurrection is very similar to the modern day question of aliens and UFO’s.

    What I mean by this is that you often see NT Scholars deny the resurrection actually happened because there is no way to verify it and we are dependent on eye witnesses (of which we only have a few actual accounts). Also we don’t have any other cases of people rising from the dead and biologically we know that people don’t come back from the dead 3 days later after being executed.

    Arguments for the resurrection are often classified as theological arguments and not worthy of the historian to even consider as a historical possibility. When confronted with a claim about the resurrection a historian would rather look for a naturalistic explanation (visions, Jesus faked his death, the disciples were not really talking about physical resurrection etc…). They would rather look for naturalistic explanations instead o depending on supernatural explanations. It then becomes extremely difficult to even discuss whether the resurrection really happened with someone of this persuasion.

    How does this relate to the UFO question? Well if someone were to make a claim that they saw a UFO today and that it gave them a message what would be our response? We have no real evidence for UFO’s. We can’t scientifically prove a UFO’s exist. And we think many of the people that say they saw a UFO are crazy.

    But we also have many independent testimonies as well as group testimonies. We have people that go to their graves saying the saw a UFO and some who would probably even be willing to die because of their testimony. We have something that happened in Roswell a number of decades ago (and a few other similar events). And we have the fact that we live in a huge universe with many, many things we don’t know or have not encountered. So how would a historian deal with the question of UFO’s?

    I guess what I find interesting is that Christians can be willing to believe one of those scenarios (the resurrection) but scoff at the other (UFO sightings). Christians are willing to believe testimony from people they never knew almost 2 thousand years ago from a different place and different culture speaking a different language with nothing else but eyewitness testimony from a few, but when it comes to UFO’s which we have people who we can actually interrogate, some people we actually know and trust, some strange videos and some actually “crashes” that might suggest something happened, and strange responses from the government, we still scoff at the idea that there might be UFO’s (much in the same way that people scoff at the idea that someone believes Jesus was raised from he dead, went back to heaven and is actually God).

    It seems to be consistent you would either have to be open to both (not believe both, but be open to the possibility of both) or closed to both.

    Anyway that’s just my opinion. I don’t believe in UFO’s (I do believe in the resurretion) but I don’ think it’s impossible that they exist and I do believe the people who claim they have seen them really did see and experience something and aren’t crazy.

    Bryan L

  4. Andrew Walker October 31, 2007 at 8:41 am #

    Yes, Kucinich does seem a little far-fetched in his proclaimed ideals, but then again, so did the claims of that one particular revolutionary and idyllic Jew- Jesus, the One we profess as the “Prince of Peace.”

    If we can never conceive of an America with no nuclear weapons, I believe we have lost our imaginative touch in creating alternative actions for peace as opposed to pursuing commonsensical tactics in nuclear armorment (the tactics that keep this world enslaved to war).

    You scare me- I build bigger bombs. You build bigger bombs- I’ll build even bigger bombs. I fear that the myth of redemptive violence is as strong as ever amongst conservative evangelicals. God forgive us for boasting of our bombs and our silent opposition and participation in American nationalism.

  5. rafe October 31, 2007 at 10:12 am #

    After taking a good look at him… Man, I don’t know, he might be an alien!

    In all seriousness, I also watched the debate because, in all likelihood, one of those folks will be our next president. Since I’m a registered independent, does that mean I can vote in the Democratic primary?

  6. Paul October 31, 2007 at 10:28 am #

    depends on what state you’re in rafe. In Illinois you can, but in other states, you can only vote in your registered party’s primary.

    say what you want about Kucinich, but he doesn’t flip flop on anything. And between someone who believes that UFO’s might exist and someone who believes that Jesus came to hang out in South America with the little indian children, who would you choose?

    I might be forced to go with the UFO’s.

  7. rafe October 31, 2007 at 10:55 am #

    HA! HA! Thanks for the info, Paul. I might have to agree with you on that one.

  8. jeff miller October 31, 2007 at 11:20 am #

    Andrew in #4 “God forgive us for boasting of our bombs…”

    I don’t have any bombs. And I feel pretty good about it.

  9. Andrew Walker October 31, 2007 at 11:31 am #

    To Jeff in #8: your taxes allow for the procurement of bombs.

    National Campaign for a Peace Tax Fund. Check it out. It may help us in interpreting Jesus’ commands literally, you know, the unpopular command to love your enemies, and DON’T BOMB THEM. For believing in the inerrancy of scripture, Christians are selective in what they feel is inerrant in our proclamation.
    http://www.peacetaxfund.org/

    I for one, wish my taxes would be diverted away from defense spending. But then, again, I am only trying to be Biblical as is everybody else.

  10. Paul October 31, 2007 at 11:40 am #

    Andrew…

    you a fellow mennonite?

  11. Denny Burk October 31, 2007 at 12:46 pm #

    Touche, Paul!

  12. rafe October 31, 2007 at 1:06 pm #

    Andrew, give taxes to who tax is due. Don’t take any personal vengeance and, by all means, don’t kill anybody.

    While I can reconcile giving taxes with Scripture, I cannot understand why some Christians think it’s alright to kill people.

    Please don’t bombard me with fantastic hypotheticals or lame just war arguments. I’ve heard them all…

  13. alan October 31, 2007 at 3:05 pm #

    Didn’t Jimmy Carter say he saw an “UFO” one time?

    Although I’m the polar opposite of the wee Ohio Congressman, I’m not quite sure what this has to do with the price of eggs in China. It seems to me to be irrelevant. Kind of the same way Chris Matthews wanted to know why Mike Huckabee did not believe in Darwin’s theory of Evolution.

  14. debbie October 31, 2007 at 5:36 pm #

    I agree with rafe in #5. Maybe he wears a mask everyday.

  15. micah October 31, 2007 at 10:41 pm #

    Why did I not read this thread earlier? Sounds like we’ve got a deep mine shaft gap brewing. We need to be in on that early, lest the Ruskies get ahead.

    I can’t stand the debates, but Kucinich held his own with Stephen Colbert (who may get my vote next fall). I would also like to find a Kucinich costume before next fall.

  16. micah October 31, 2007 at 10:44 pm #

    And as a pilot, let me set this straight: there are a lot of unidentified flying objects. Sometimes you later recognize them to be a Cessna Citation or Saab 340, but then some things you can never quite tell what they are. And so long as you don’t hit one, you’re okay.

  17. rf2r2 November 1, 2007 at 2:42 pm #

    Having recently tasted Ben and Jerry’s new Stephen Colbert, Americone Dream ice cream, I too am tempted to cast my vote for this Chucktownian 🙂

  18. micah November 1, 2007 at 9:17 pm #

    Bad news for us Colbertians, it looks like he’s been kicked off the South Carolina Democrat ticket. And it’s said he won’t run as a Republican either since it costs $35,000. But don’t worry–he is still America, and so can you!,

  19. Ken November 2, 2007 at 11:13 am #

    rafe: You asked if you, as a registered independent, could vote in the Democratic Party primary.

    I think it depends on which state you are registered to vote in. My state allows only registered party members to vote in their respective primaries. It’s the chief reason I’m a registered Democrat (I live in a deeply blue state, so it’s the only chance I get to have any say in the general election outcome).

  20. Jon November 4, 2007 at 10:11 pm #

    I had a youth pastor when I was in High School that believed that alien abduction would likely be the explanation of choice for unbelievers trying to rationalize what happens in the rapture of the church. Interesting thought, eh?

    Kucinich must believe the little green men to be amicable fellows, what with the whole disarmament thing. Maybe he needs to do some more research. “Independence Day” ring a bell?

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