Why John Piper Invited Rick Warren

John Piper has received some criticism for inviting Rick Warren to speak at the 2010 Desiring God National Conference. In this video, he explains why he invited him. There is a slightly longer version of this video available here.

48 Responses to Why John Piper Invited Rick Warren

  1. Nate Martin April 1, 2010 at 10:09 am #

    Rick Warren is a Calvinist? I was unaware of that.

  2. Lou Martuneac April 1, 2010 at 11:08 pm #

    Denny:

    I believe separation from believers who are disobedient is a loving response to their disobedience. John Piper has, however, abandoned this biblical principle. Piper prefers unity/fellowship at the expense of ignoring what the Bible calls for when we encounter the disobedient among us, and Rick Warren is among the disobedient.

    “Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us…. note that man, and have no company with him, that he may be ashamed. Yet count him not as an enemy, but admonish him as a brother,” (2 Thess. 3: 6, 14-15).

    Furthermore, IMO with this invitation to Warren, John Piper joins the ranks of the disobedient and we must “withdraw from” from him because of it.

    LM

  3. Brent Hobbs April 2, 2010 at 9:38 am #

    Lou M, that’s nonsense. You’d be withdrawing from every person on earth if you followed that to it logical conclusion.

    In fact, Denny isn’t withdrawing from Piper, but posting his defense. Therefore, you should have withdrawn from Denny and not even posted here.

  4. Darius April 2, 2010 at 9:56 am #

    Lou, might I bother you to actually give a reason why Warren is “among the disobedient?”

  5. Lou Martuneac April 2, 2010 at 11:41 am #

    Gentlemen:

    Rom. 16:17 is very clear, “mark” and “avoid.” With Rick Warren’s track record of “contrary” doctrine and practices there is no subjective decision to make regarding him in light of Rom. 16:17.

    Piper, however, chooses to embrace and give him recognition, which will lend credibility to Warren and his methods. Piper also puts impressionable believers, who follow him (Piper) at risk by giving Warren another national platform, which could lead to their spiritual demise.

    If those who are merely idle are to be withdrawn from then for what he is doing with Warren he must surely be withdrawn from.

    No one can understand or explain why Piper embraces Rick Warren except Piper himself. IMO, this is a huge disconnect from what Piper writes in his books. One must question that Piper believes what he writes in his own books.

    LM

  6. Darius April 2, 2010 at 12:15 pm #

    Or perhaps he sees fruit that you, from a much bigger distance, are unable or unwilling to see… I have my misgivings about Warren as well, but I wouldn’t pretend to know enough about the man to hastily pass judgment on him.

  7. MRWBBIII April 3, 2010 at 7:02 am #

    JOHN PIPER ON RICK WARREN DG 2010 SERMON JAM

  8. Mike April 3, 2010 at 3:57 pm #

    I know that most of us know the following joke but I thought I would share it with our brothers who might need reminding.

    I was walking across a bridge one day, and I saw a man standing on the edge, about to jump off, so I ran over and said “Stop! Don’t do it!”

    He said, “Why shouldn’t I?” I said, “Well, there’s so much to live for!” He said, “Like what?” I said, “Well…are you religious or atheist?” He said, “Religious.” I said, “Me too! Are you Christian or Buddhist?” He said, “Christian.” I said, “Me too! Are you Catholic or Protestant?” He said, “Protestant.”

    I said, “Me too! Are you Episcopalian or Baptist?” He said, “Baptist.” I said, “Me too! Are you Northern Baptist or Southern Baptist?” He said, “Northern Baptist.” I said, “Me too! Are you Original Northern Baptist or Reformed Northern Baptist?” He said, “Reformed Northern Baptist.” I said, “Me too! Are you Reformed Northern Baptist Missouri synod or Reformed Northern Baptist Wisconsin synod?” He said, “Reformed Northern Baptist Missouri synod.” I said, “Me, too! Are you Reformed Northern Baptist Missouri synod reformation of 1879, or Reformed Northern Baptist Missouri synod reformation of 1915?” He said, “Reformed Northern Baptist Missouri synod reformation of 1915.” And I said, “Die, heretic!” and pushed him off.

  9. Donald Johnson April 3, 2010 at 6:15 pm #

    Warren leads an unruly life?

    I do not think so. I may disagree with some things he teaches, but I do not see him as unruly.

  10. Lucas Knisely April 4, 2010 at 5:21 pm #

    Lou, you come off as if you’ve arrived. Where has Warren fallen into sin doctrinally, according to you?

  11. Lou Martuneac April 5, 2010 at 3:13 pm #

    Lucas:

    Try a different tone and I may reply to you. Col. 4:6

    LM

  12. Lou Martuneac April 5, 2010 at 3:13 pm #

    Denny:

    Just wanted to reiterate that I appreciate your efforts in regard to Piper’s invitation to Rick Warren.

    FWIW, I gave your article here an atta-boy link from my blog in my new article, What are the T4G Men For to Do?

    Kind regards,

    LM

  13. Lucas Knisely April 5, 2010 at 5:46 pm #

    Lou,

    I asked a simple question. If you can’t answer it then your charges against Piper and Warren are empty and ultimately sinful due to their nature being false charges without any supplied evidence to support their validity.

  14. Lucas Knisely April 5, 2010 at 5:49 pm #

    Scratch that, Lou. I visited your website. I have no desire for any further discourse with someone who goes to such great lengths to attack fellow brothers of the faith. No doubt you’ll accuse me and anyone else who defends Piper as being in sin. Your ivory tower will get lonely eventually.

  15. Lou Martuneac April 5, 2010 at 6:30 pm #

    Lucas:

    Ditto my previous. Colossians 4:6

    LM

  16. Darius T April 5, 2010 at 7:08 pm #

    Lou, you clearly have no sense of irony… Lucas, shake the dust off your sandals and move on.

  17. John Holmberg April 6, 2010 at 12:45 am #

    Lou,

    There are many on this blog, including the host, who have fundamentalist tendencies. None of them measure up to you, my friend. Perhaps the problem isn’t the Pipers or Warrens, the problem is people like you. You embarrass all of us, conservative and progressive alike. It is people like you who make me think maybe the bias against evangelicals isn’t as unfair and wrong as we normally perceive it to be.

  18. Lou Martuneac April 6, 2010 at 12:12 pm #

    John:

    While I appreciate your position IMO, The Scriptures speak to the issue in blunt terms.

    “Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them. For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple,” (Rom. 16:17-18).

    In my second follow up to my original article from March 30, in which I posted confirmation of Piper’s invite to Rick Warren, I go into additional details on what the fallout might and IMO should be. See, John Piper to Feature Rick Warren: What Are the T4G Men For to Do?

    Bottomline for me is this: In regard to Rick Warren the mandates in verse 17 apply and there is no subjective decision to make. Piper, however, chose to ignore the Scriptures to embrace Rick Warren, to defend and give him recognition, which will lend credibility to Warren and his methods. Piper puts impressionable believers, who follow him (Piper) at risk. Piper offers Warren a national platform, which could through his, “good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple,” “draw away disciples” (Acts 20:30) and lead to their spiritual demise.

    What Piper has done is inexcusable. Piper’s invite of Rick Warren, apart from his repentance from it, IMO numbers him among the disobedient. And the Scriptures mandate our response to him and Warren.

    Your problem is not with me, it is with the Word of God.

    LM

  19. Darius April 6, 2010 at 12:31 pm #

    Lou, what I think everyone is waiting (with bated breath) for from you is a better explanation of what exactly makes Warren an anathema to you? Obviously, Warren’s sinfulness is prima facie to you, but it isn’t to the rest of us. Teach us, inform us, show us what we’re missing. Answer us fools according to our folly, lest we be wise in our own eyes.

  20. tim prussic April 6, 2010 at 7:28 pm #

    Thanks for posting this. What Piper’s doing for the Reformed world is showing how provincial we all are. 98% of my Reformed brethen would condemn Warren, but mostly without any first-hand knowledge of the man, his ministry, or his theology. Piper’s going to give us a good look at Warren and, I dare say, we’ll be ashamed of ourselves at the end of the day. And that even if we still differ with Warren on important issues.

  21. Robert April 7, 2010 at 8:57 am #

    As usual, Warren talks a good talk but the walk he walks is quite contradictory;

    Why should J.P. not invite Warren?

    1. The blatant scripture twisting, contradiction and eisegesis in his number one answer for saving the world, Rwanda was his first purpose driven nation (Rick’s title not mine!), book and replacement of the Bible itself for those who can’t stomach it, why give the nation of Rwanda the true answer to their depraved nation, the Gospel of the entire Bible, when you can give them ‘The Purpose Driven Life’!

    2. How about the Fox News interview with Rick, titled ‘Can Rick Warren Save the World’ later toned down to ‘Can Rick Warren Change the World’! Nice platform to introduce his P.E.A.C.E. plan, which promotes religious unity for the sake of saving the World, don’t want to offend them with the truth of who Christ is because we gotta work together to save the World!

    3. How about Rick signing the Yale Center for Faith and Culture document for unity among Christians and Muslims, after all we do worship the same God… Right? Give me a break, don’t you do any research?

    http://www.yale.edu/faith/abou-commonword.htm

    4. How about Rick’s sponsoring of the world AIDES conference at his church where he invited a whole retinue of Anti-Christ speakers like Hillary and Bill, U.N. Assistant Secretary General and a whole host of other God haters and pseudo Christian teachers.

    5. How about Warren aligning himself with New Age/Emergent teacher Leonard Sweet, here are a few quotes from Sweet’s book ‘Quantum Spirituality’

    In his book, Quantum Spirituality, Sweet states:
    The power of small groups is in their ability to develop the discipline to get people “in-phase” with the Christ consciousness and connected with one another.

    Here are some more quotes from Leonard Sweets Book Quantum Spirituality:

    “Austrian/American physicist Wolfgang Pauli perceived, are the traceable connections that exist between ourselves and others or objects, and the underlying holism of the uni-verse. Transcendent state of consciousness” (Quantum Spirituality p.234)

    “New Light embodiment means to be “in connection” and “in-formation” with other Christians…The church is fundamentally one being, one person, a communion whose cells are connected to one another within the information network called the Christ consciousness” (Quantum Spirituality, p. 122).

    “Postmodern missions must have a geomantic imagination and geomantic design. What I am calling a geomantic style of evangelization will ensure harmonious habitation patterns as the gospel interconnects and interacts with all life-and landforms. (Quantum Spirituality, p.168)

    Read some quotes from Oprah and her New Age Movement friends and compare them to what Leonard Sweet is saying. No difference. Yet, Rick Warren has put his stamp of approval on Leonard’s worldview by having him as a keynote speaker at his church.
    People can not say we did not warn them about Rick and his friends several years ago.

    6. Here is Rick addressing a audiences of techies, mostly un-believers at the 2006 TED’s convention, a little taste of Rick’s universalist leanings!

    http://youtube.com/watch?v=OvyyEIEDqrQ&feature=related

    7. Another link example of Rick denying the Truth of the Gospel as the only answer for true peace and promoting ecumenical unity in spite of obvious idolatrous and Anti-Christ sentiments, this is from Steve Camp’s sight;

    http://stevenjcamp.blogspot.com/search/label/Rick%20Warren

    8. Contact Bob DeWaay and grill him about the audience he shared with Warren asking him to preach the Gospel in spite of it offending the world.

    I have all kinds of material archived from following Rick over the years, there is more than this. If this does not convince you of the duplicitous nature of Warren then nothing will. You guys really do need to do more research and be discerning. Rick is a pastor to the world and world religions, he is not a representative of the true body of Christ.

    Robert

  22. Jen April 7, 2010 at 11:58 am #

    Some of you have mentioned that you don’t see error in Warren’s teaching, or that some of us are blindly predujiced against him. I think it’s pretty clear that Warren does not preach the gospel. In “The Purpose Driven Life” video and book, he states that if you pray a prayer saying that you “believe” in God and Jesus, and want to discover your “purpose”, you’re saved! He exclaims, “Welcome to the family of God”! He consistently does not mention sin, confession, or why we are dead in our trespasses and need a saviour. He is leading people to believe they are falsely saved by simply believing in God (even the demons believe…). Is this not heresy? He preaches a false gospel, and we should not welcome that preaching. I sincerely hope that John Piper reconsiders his position in welcoming Warren to speak his false gospel at DG.

  23. Jen April 7, 2010 at 12:05 pm #

    For those who doubt Warren’s all-inclusive all-you-must-do-is-repeat-after-me gospel, here is the transcript from the first session of his “40 Days of Purpose” video series:
    “Dear God, I want to know your purpose for my life. I don’t want to base the rest of my life on wrong things. I want to take the first step in preparing for eternity by getting to know you. Jesus Christ, I don’t understand how but as much as I know how I want to open up my life to you. Make yourself real to me. And use this series in my life to help me know what you made me for.” Warren goes on to say: “Now if you’ve just prayed that prayer for the very first time I want to congratulate you. You’ve just become a part of the family of God.”
    Is this the kind of teaching we want to support?!

  24. Jon April 7, 2010 at 1:43 pm #

    A greater issue comes up regarding the ‘Conference’ phenomenon. Is a conference invitation the same thing as having someone preach in your local church? How did a conference invitation become a wholesale endorsement of someone’s theology? etc. etc.

    I think much of the criticism could be coming from a misunderstanding of what a conference is about, coupled with a blurry ecclesiology. How is the invitation an endorsement? How do we know that Piper does not intend to rebuke and correct with the hopes of turning a brother?

  25. Scott April 7, 2010 at 5:12 pm #

    Regarding posts 22-24….

    So what’s wrong with inviting the man to the conference?

    I completely agree with Jon. It’s sad that so many people have used this invitation as an opportunity to lash out. Piper is a man of God, maybe we should trust him a wee bit!

  26. Robert April 7, 2010 at 8:11 pm #

    OK, Piper is a man of God! Does that make him infallible? He has made mistakes before and this is one of them.
    Since we in the public are the ones that participate in his teaching and contribute to his ministry we certainly have a right if not a duty to speak up when we see that there is a problem. There is one now and it needs to be addressed. Putting together evidence that supports our conclusions that Warren is not what he appears is not throwing J.P. under the bus and the facts are the facts, they need to be addressed. No one here has thrown John under the bus. Buck up and respond intelligently, look at the information posted on Warren and see if it is valid!

    Robert

  27. Lou Martuneac April 7, 2010 at 8:43 pm #

    Robert:

    Excellent research, well documented.

    LM

  28. Scott April 7, 2010 at 9:51 pm #

    Robert,

    Again, I fail to see what’s wrong with him speaking at a conference. Maybe Piper wants to give him a chance to explain himself. Maybe Piper wants to use the opportunity to get some things in the open. Who knows. But the point is that it’s a conference, not a pulpit! Look at it this way, if you think he’s a heretic then this is your opportunity for that to come out in the open.

    “Buck up and respond intelligently” – maybe you should read my post more carefully.

  29. Scott April 7, 2010 at 9:53 pm #

    There’s nothing sadder than seeing otherwise sane & solid believers devote themselves to “documenting heresy.” Especially when they dedicate entire websites to the task.

    It’s unfruitful at best and a sad commentary on the divisions within the church. In the words of Piper, “Don’t waste your life.”

  30. Robert April 7, 2010 at 11:26 pm #

    Scott

    I have read your question! Please correct me if I am wrong. The purpose of the Desiring God conference is held in order to disseminate the truth of God!
    Is it held for any other purpose? John Piper is a public Christian leader and thousands of people take in his teaching because he has shown himself to be one that consistently purveys the truth of God’s word. John Piper’s pulpit has become much more than local to his own community and is world wide, he also accepts donations to promote his international pulpit ministry. The Desiring God conference is a extension of his international and local pulpit.
    Rick Warren has shown his teachings and methods to be consistently heretical and I have responded to J.P.’s statement that he would have to be really convinced as to why he should not have him come speak at Desiring God. I have presented documented information as to why Warren should not be given the pulpit time at such a influential conference.
    If you have a problem with what I have presented then refute it. Do not respond with rhetoric or ad hominem but present sound refutation. I have not said nor insinuated in any way that fellowship with John should be impacted.
    Now, instead of being caustic in your reply by insinuating that I have not met up to your standard of time well used or wasted please refute what has been said in a honorable manner.

    Robert

  31. Scott April 8, 2010 at 12:12 am #

    Again, it’s a conference! I think you’re completely missing the point regarding the medium. Conferences are, by nature, designed for an open exchange of information – particularly amongst people of divergent opinions. If you have a problem with Rick go listen! Ask questions. Piper has posted videos explaining his differences with Rick & openly (if not bluntly) expressed his motives. Is this not sufficient for you? He’s not trying to sneak him in the back door.

  32. Robert April 8, 2010 at 12:36 am #

    Scott

    I offered premises refuting your excuse that it is a conference, it is more than that. You will also find that those attending this event are Christians and their divergent opinions are not the issue. The issue is and what those people are attending for is Piper’s representation of teaching the truth.
    I responded to Piper’s statement that he would have to be convinced to a greater degree that he should not offer Warren a platform to preach/teach from.
    As for your straw man of a insinuation that I somehow said that Piper is sneaking him in the back door with out explaining his intentions, is a invention all of your own!

  33. Scott April 8, 2010 at 12:50 am #

    Robert,

    I read and disagree with your premise that it is more than a conference. To me that’s the heart of the matter. People go to Desiring God to hear many different speakers talk about many different subjects. It’s not designed as a pure “gospel presentation.”

    I wasn’t inventing a straw man! I was merely explaining that Piper was being very open about his decision to invite Warren & very blunt in expressing his theological differences. In doing so I think he himself effectively demonstrates that the format and purposes of the conference run deeper than you’re assuming.

    Christians go to the conference. Generally speaking, it’s not a project in evangelism. I would hope those in attendance can exercise enough discretion to choose not to hear Warren if they so like. Furthermore, as I’ve stated previously, they can use the time to actively engage Warren. I think that just might be Piper’s intention all along. I’ve never seen him make a video defending any of his speakers before.

  34. MRWBBIII April 8, 2010 at 4:43 am #

    TO DESIRING GOD 2010 RICK WARREN JOHN PIPER ATTENDEES

    http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xcvemw_to-desiring-god-2010-rick-warren-jo_webcam

  35. Darius April 8, 2010 at 10:21 am #

    Gotta love sound-clip hate… it’s impossible to refute.

  36. Darius April 8, 2010 at 10:22 am #

    Oops, meant sound-bite.

  37. Lucas Knisely April 9, 2010 at 10:02 am #

    Little Glenn Beck theologians.

  38. Bradley Cloetingh May 9, 2010 at 9:24 pm #

    Do we truly think that this one event and invitation will so drastically pervert the Gospel of Jesus Christ and discredit John Piper’s ministry? Warren does not preach heresy; he believes all the fundamentals of the faith, unlike many of our other emerging brothers (Bell, McLaren) who are indeed flirting with heresey. Is John Piper so naieve that he has not thought this process? Let’s use reason here, remember, God is sovereign.

  39. Bradley Cloetingh May 9, 2010 at 9:29 pm #

    Lou,
    What have you done for the kingdom of God and the proper care of the world? As much as Warren?

  40. Lou Martuneac May 9, 2010 at 11:50 pm #

    BC:

    What I have done and hope to do is for the right, but not the left hand to know.

    Thanking God I have not been the blight, open sore and done the great harm to the name and cause of Christ that Rick Warren has such as the following from,

    John Piper, “I’m Going to Need Help to Know Why I Should Feel Bad About This Decision.

    A. Warren embraces deliberate pragmatism of the worst kind:
    He believes that anyone one can be reached based on “finding the key to that person’s heart.” Therefore, the unbelieving community sets the agenda for his church: Warren says, “We let the unchurched needs determine our programs; the unchurched hang-ups determine our strategy; the unchurched culture determine our style; the unchurched population determine our goals.” (PD website)

    B. Warren routinely misuses Scripture
    The Bible is a tool that Warren manipulates to cover his own ideas with a veneer of divine authority. For example, in the Purpose Driven Life he quotes from 15 Bible versions and paraphrases, picking and choosing the one that fits his pragmatic need. This process often wrenches texts out of context.

    C. Warren is guilty of serious theological reductionism:
    He discounts the value of a well-rounded system of doctrine and even considers doctrine an obstacle to unity. On his Purpose Driven website he lists his doctrinal statement that any Bible college graduate would find completely inadequate. His doctrine of theology proper is the following: “God is bigger and better and closer than we can imagine.” That’s it for the doctrine of God. It is so insufficient one could say that it falls short of an adequate understanding of the Christian concept of God the Father.

    D. Warren promotes extreme ecumenism:
    He has forged ties with the Roman Catholic Church, the Baptist World Alliance and the United Nations. Warren is involved with and a member of the Council on Foreign Relations. Warren said, “I see absolutely zero reason in separating my fellowship from anybody,” Noting he has theological differences with many of the diverse denominations that invite him to speak, Warren added, “That doesn’t stop me from fellowshipping with them.” When he heard of the SBC’s withdrawal from the Baptist World Alliance, he added, “I thought, ‘This is silly! Why would we separate ourselves from brothers and sisters in the world?’” (Rick Warren, Global Baptists Are in This Together.) Warren signing the Yale Center for Faith and Culture document for unity among Christian and Muslim faiths.

    Continue…

  41. Lou Martuneac May 9, 2010 at 11:53 pm #

    E. Warren redefines ministry in terms of social activism:
    Alan Wolfe of the Wall Street Journal says, “Historians are likely to pinpoint Mr. Warren’s trip to Rwanda as the moment when conservative evangelical Protestantism made questions of social justice central to its concerns.” Warren’s Global Peace Plan for “Purpose Driven Nations” includes involving himself with the UN, Council on Foreign Relations, etc. in order to rid the world of “poverty, disease, and illiteracy” by forming entangling alliances between churches, secular businesses, and governments. This is an agenda completely foreign to and for Warren replaces the Great Commission and the New Testament church as laid out in Acts and the Pauline Epistles. Through his cooperative efforts, Warren aligns himself with the same UN that seeks to “rid the world” of unborn infants through their murder while still in the womb.

    F. Warren justifies cultural capitulation by embracing anti-God cultural norms:
    A notable example of this occurred when Warren sang the Jimi Hendrix song, “Purple Haze,” during the 25th anniversary celebration service of Saddleback Church. Most recently Warren hosted the Jonas Brothers (boy band) for Saddleback’s 30th anniversary celebration and Easter Sunday service. [Editor’s Note: With Piper hosting a RAP artist at his church and MacArthur featuring Christian Rock-n-Roll bands at his Resolved conference this from Warren may be unworthy of notice for them.]

    G. Warren propagates some the worst soteriological reductionism:
    “Wherever you are reading this, I invite you to bow your head and quietly whisper the prayer that will change your eternity: ‘Jesus, I believe in you and receive you.’ If you sincerely meant that prayer, congratulations! Welcome to the family of God!” (PDL, p. 74).

    H. Warren relies heavily on pop psychology:
    Popular themes in secular psychology appear regularly in Warren’s writings, shaping everything from outreach strategy to discipleship curricula.

    “Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them. For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple,” (Rom. 16:17-18).

    John Piper puts impressionable believers, who follow him (Piper) at risk. Piper offers Warren a national platform, which could through his, “good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple,” draw away disciples (Acts 20:30) and lead to their spiritual demise.

  42. Kandy May 20, 2010 at 1:56 pm #

    I don’t usually get on these things but this angers me. I was in a church that did nothing but attack other Christians and churches and Rick Warren was on that long list. Then when I got out and actually brought myself to read ‘The Purpose Driven Life’ I was totally blessed. It is all about JESUS. There is nothing heretical about it. He proclaims loudly and often that Jesus is God in flesh and the ONLY way to be saved. Have any of you attackers really read this book? What really angers me is the spirit of your attacks. This is exactly the hate filled divisive stuff that totally turns this post modern culture away from our Savior, Jesus Christ. JESUS is who they need, and Rick Warren gives HIM to them. He is not a deciever, He loves the Lord Jesus Christ with all of his heart and it is so evident if you would but bother to really read the Purpose Driving Life without a critical spirit. I am a mature Christian and when I read your hate filled attacts against a brother is sickens me. Mainly because it is such a stumbling block to this unbelieving world. They need to see us loving each other not attacking. God says, “If you say you love HIM and don’t love your brother, you are a liar. So maybe a fair thing for you all to do is talk to the one personally that you have such a problem with and see if you can clear up some of your misconceptions before you continue to slander him?

  43. Lou Martuneac May 20, 2010 at 11:39 pm #

    Kandy:

    Then when I got out and actually brought myself to read ‘The Purpose Driven Life’ I was totally blessed. It is all about JESUS. There is nothing heretical about it.

    Sorry to say, but you have been tragically deceived.

    Warren embraces the deadly “enemies of the cross of Christ” (Phil. 3:18). His ministry methods are blight and open sore on the name and cause of Christ.

    May I suggest you (asap) read Redefining Christianity: Understanding the Purpose Driven Life Movement by Bob DeWaay

    LM

  44. Kandy May 21, 2010 at 1:00 pm #

    Have you talked to Rick Warren himself, or are you just hearing all the propaganda about him? I don’t care to read a book by a man demeaning a brother. I have heard Warren Smith who has written books too about Rick Warren and could refute everything he came up with as ‘out of context’ or just untrue. The bottom line is, Jesus hates this kind of division. We need to be about drawing this lost world to Him and this kind of stuff repels them. If Rick Warren were the deciever you claim he is I could see why you would want him exposed but he is not. I know decievers, believe me, and he is not one. I see you to be the one decieved and being used by the enemy of our souls to keep those who are lost away from Jesus. Maybe you need to read the book by Chip Ingram, The Invisable War because that is what we are encountering as Christians every day and one of Satans greatest tactics is being an accuser of the brethren to divide us. You are being used in this war but you are on the wrong side and he has you so decieved that you think you are fighing for God when in reality you are fighting against Him.

  45. Pedro May 29, 2010 at 9:20 am #

    Lou, did John Piper actually make the statement “I’m Going to Need Help to Know Why I Should Feel Bad about This Decision”.
    If he did, my respect for him has increased.
    Having said that, the huge problem that follows for me is this;
    (a) When a man who has the spirit of Jesus Christ
    (b) Who hears his voice when he speaks to him
    (c) Who has studied scriptures deeply and vastly over many years
    (d) Tasted of the power of the age to come
    (e) Participated in the Holy Spirit
    (f) Seen the working of the spirit of God in converting people from deep evil to being godly men and women
    (g) Seen the spirit of God heal people through them and not just hear say
    (h) Seen miracles done by the Holy Spirit through them
    (i) Seen (not heard) the workings of the spiritual gifts (especially discernment of spirits) in the body of Christ
    From these exposures, one would have gained the knowledge that beyond what a man teaches, the SPIRIT behind the teaching is what is most essential and core to determining if what he/she teaches is going to impact the people of God with increase in the spirit of Christ or another spirit.
    Christianity is not behavioral science though it changes our behavior to imitate Christ’s mind.
    Every doctrine, message or teaching is propelled by a spirit and therefore controls who ever accepts it. The doctrines of scriptures originate from God and propelled by the Holy Spirit (John 17:8) “For I have given them the words that you gave me”. But false doctrines/teachings originate from and empowered by devils called deceiving spirits (Rev 12:9). And their vigorous goal is to keep people from the truth and seduce those with the truth away from the truth (John 12:40 and Matt 24:24).
    Wise men (men who are gifted with any of the five-fold ministries) ask God about a man’s spirit beyond his doctrine because the mouth can speak the truth from a false spirit in other to deceive. This does not mean they know everything. That is part of the reason each ministry gift without exception, submits to the other ministries and the spiritual gifts that operate in the body of Christ.
    Are we to trust that our beloved brother Piper has looked at the above perspectives to the present issue and God has spoken to him clearly without ambiguity? For a sensitive issue like this, it’s a MUST that there need not be ANY PRESUMPTION on the path of any one either Piper or those opposing the decision knowing that we are talking about the lives of God’s precious people who God has worked in their heart to love and trust the ministry (service of God) that has come forth from Piper over time.
    I know that the attitude of the Apostles and Prophets of God in the scriptures towards the issue of false teaching and teachers are extremely stern and uncompromising.
    I believe part of the reasons for their attitude is false teachers and prophets almost always come from among the brethren and as such already have a certain level of sway on the church.
    They are skill-full, crafty and powerfully stand against the way, the truth and life (JESUS CHRIST). 2 Peter 2:1, 2 Tim 3:6-8, 2 Tim 2:16-17 and 2 Tim 4:14-15.
    False teachers teach error because a false spirit is at work in them. A false teacher does not only speak lies but adds some truth to the teaching. This makes it somewhat hard for many to discern false teaching and teachers. They understand the truth (Christ) but have rejected him (the way) Acts 4:12. They secretly hate the fact that he should be the ONLY WAY when they have tasted another way (philosophies of darkness) which seems to yield them their desired result quick (Deut 11:16). This deceptive nature makes the gift of discernment of spirits (not suspicion) a necessity for all believers and especially leadership in the body of Christ.
    The issue of differentiating between a conference and the gathering of the saints of God is a shock to me. What about Matt 18:20.
    We all need to be careful how we attack each other so we do not insult God’s word in the bet to win arguments. A believer must not strife- is a command not suggestion (2 Tim 2:24). It leads to denying the truth consciously or unconsciously (Jam 3:14) and ultimately to all manners of evil (Jam 3:16). It has happened many times before – where brethren have finished prolonged strife/argument only to find out that they have lost the ability to live above the sin(s) they had previously had mastery over.
    Let us all be careful and patient and God will soon crush the enemy and his cohorts. And the body of Christ will be exalted above all other mountains.

  46. Carol May 31, 2010 at 3:13 pm #

    What about Rick Warren lying to Larry King about Proposition 8? Warren told CNN he made no endorsements or statements about Prop 8. But he told the people of his church to get out the vote and support the measure, and he told them everybody already knew where he stood on the matter. You can have everybody knowing where you stand on a political issue unless you’ve made some kind of public statement about it.

    What about Joseph Farah (of WND) and his claim Warren lied to him? When Warren went to Syria in 2006, Farah took him to task for praising Sryia for being a moderate country. Then Farah asked Warren for tapes he made in Syria. According to Farah, Warren told him he made no tapes. Then, Farah found a Youtube of Warren making statements in Syria. Farah confronted Warren. Warren had the Youtube pulled, but someone copied the audio.

    So according to Farah, Warren lied to him. Incidentally, in that audio, Warren informs us that the Apostle Paul was himself a Syrian, which is false.

    Also, I don’t buy John Piper’s claim that Warren is a four pointer. If you read the Purpose Driven Life, Warren teaches that God chose Mary the mother of Jesus because she was fully yielded to him. He also teaches conditional election in other places in the book, and in devotions on the internet.

    Piper is glossing over serious issues, and not confronting even more serious ones, such as Rick Warren’s ability to tell the truth.

  47. Micah June 8, 2010 at 6:50 pm #

    Something I heard on cross talk (although they did not support the Piper-Warren alliance) that was helpful was the distinction between orthodoxy and orthopraxy. According to Piper, Warren’s orthodoxy is relatively solid, but his orthopraxy may be very questionable. I feel that this could be one of the coolest moves that Piper has done for the glory of the gospel yet…which is to embrace a fellow (somewhat errant) brother and encourage him after the “new man” to preach the word! It’s almost as though Piper is taking a big brother sort of role here to encourage Warren to use his influence for the glory of the gospel. I think Piper is thinking if he has enough in common with Warren in their orthdoxy as the foundation, he (Piper) could influence him (Warren) to a better orthopraxy. And wouldn’t that be a glorious display of God’s immeasurable grace to see Warren repent of his orthopraxy and preach the word for the praise of the glory of God’s grace in Christ! Amen

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