Derek Webb’s Interview at HuffPo

I thought about commenting on this interview, but I don’t think there’s anything to say that I haven’t already said (see here and here). Nevertheless, The Huffington Post is a large platform, and it’s noteworthy that Webb has taken his message there as well.

19 Responses to Derek Webb’s Interview at HuffPo

  1. Patrick Duncan December 27, 2010 at 10:17 pm #

    The most interesting quote from the article was this:

    I don’t want to draw lines and have to be on one side or the other, but if someone’s going to push me to one or the other side of the line, I’m going to stand on the side of those being judged because that’s where I feel Jesus meets people.

    I find it interesting that when push comes to shove, some people’s favorite passage in Scripture is the “judge not, lest you be judged” passage in John 8 – which, ironically, isn’t even found in the most reliable, original manuscripts of John’s Gospel. I appreciate and applaud his willingness to love those outside of the Church and lost in sin, no matter what their lifestyle is, whether they happen to be gay or a drug dealer or an unconverted religious person. But that is entirely different from standing with and ministering as a Christian musician with Jennifer Knapp and others who claim to be followers and yet defy Scripture.

    By the way, I have been a big fan of both Webb and Knapp, but this cannot be papered over and it saddens me.

  2. John December 28, 2010 at 1:49 pm #

    “The response, by the way, is love. Period. It’s love and open arms, regardless of your position on the morality.”
    At work I have the constant ministry of showing love toward the few very homosexuals whom I work with. Many of my coworkers display blatant hostility toward these people, and I have a chance to show them the love of Christ. But the love I show does not – indeed can not – ignore the immorality of homosexuality. This practice is a sin and under judgment, and we can no more welcome an unrepentant homosexual into communion with the body of Christ than an unrepentant adulterer or thief or liar. One’s “opinion” about the morality of homosexuality is not something that can be brushed aside in the name of love. This is not what brand of auto you drive; it is not personal taste. It is a practice that God has condemned in the plainest language. I know that Derek is probably impelled by knowledge of how some Christians display hostility and hatred toward homosexuals, but the answer is to jettison these sins, not the Word of God. It is ironic that Webb would paint the actions of the church as wrong, but ignore the wrongness of homosexuality. Where does his moral standard come from?

  3. Kelly December 29, 2010 at 11:11 am #

    John, after reading your post, all I can say is that “friendship” such as yours is not friendship at all, and anyone who is gay and does not firmly put you in your place when you try the insulting “love the sinner, hate the sinner” sort of “friendship” needs to start doing so, and also to listen to Christians from better theological backgrounds and better churches than your own.

    When you make stupid statements about how people can “jettison” (sic) these “sins”, you only sonld like a lowly fundamentalist.
    Raise your standards, or stop insutling gay people with a condescending second hand kind of friendship.

    At least the OPEN bigots at your work are being HONEST, which is way, way more than you can say.

  4. John December 29, 2010 at 11:25 am #

    Sorry, Kelly, but agreeing with the Bible about what sin is does not constitute bigotry. And my homosexual friends not only enjoy our friendship, but respect me for standing by my beliefs. While you may desire them to resent me, they don’t. Not everyone lives in your partisan narrative.

  5. Phil Vander Ploeg December 29, 2010 at 11:28 am #

    The Bible is clear. I appreciate D.A. Carson’s video on the Gospel Coalition webiste about the importance of being a faithful preacher/teacher.
    I pastored a church that had a number of men who struggled with homosexuality. They appreciated the truth more than anything, and they are walking in freedom. Truth and Love… both are necessary in my opinion.

  6. Michael Templin December 29, 2010 at 12:04 pm #

    Kelly, you are ridiculous. So you are a Bigot and a “lowly fundamentalist” for sharing the view of the historic Judeo-Christian on Homosexuality.

  7. Zack December 29, 2010 at 12:39 pm #

    Kelly,

    I stumbled upon this blog and started clicking around.

    I noticed that you are a particularly passionate commenter, and, using only your words as a barometer, it appears that you are most passionate about disagreeing with those who would condemn the practice of homosexuality as unbiblical.

    It makes me think of a lunch gathering I was at a couple of weeks ago:

    I was finishing up a lunch with a couple of friends. We had talked about all kinds of things, mostly in the realm of theology. As we were gathering our trash, a guy at the next table leaned over and said, “Go reformed theology!”. He had overheard our conversation and found that he agreed with us on many of our conclusions.

    We chatted with him for a minute, and as we walked away, my friend said, “Next time, let’s have a conversation that will cause someone to lean over and say ‘Go Jesus!'”

    Kelly, you are obviously passionate about your interpretation of scripture, but are you passionate about Jesus? I honestly cannot tell from your comments.

    Even if you dramatically changed the views of every reader of this blog on the topic of homosexuality, would that really change much? Would Jesus be any more the Hero, and would any of us need Him or His grace any more (or any less)? Would any of us be any more prone to worship or promote the Savior?

    Like I said: we’ve never met. I’ll bet you’re an awesome person and you are obviously passionate. I’m just challenging you: is your effort going to have any eternal significance?

  8. Nathan December 29, 2010 at 2:54 pm #

    The church’s response to homosexuality has been appalling. Plain and simple. Someone needs to stand up and try to stop the holier-than-thou onslaught that’s been occurring for aeons. If you are trying to live by hating sin and loving sinners, start with hating your own sin — every one of them — as much as you hate homosexuality. I bet you’d find that you don’t have much time to hate other people’s sin.

  9. Chris December 29, 2010 at 3:03 pm #

    So Nathan does that mean that homosexuals need to hate their own sin of homosexuality? Because so many mislead gay people of faith refuse to admit their sin. Not an excuse for others to harp on it but I am just saying…

    Question: If you saw someone you cared about sinning unrepentantly what is your take on the appropriate Christian response?

  10. Kelly December 29, 2010 at 3:48 pm #

    Mr. Tmeplin, your post made no sense. And I am far from ridiculous. I am just stating the facts; second rate “friendship” is worse than no friendship at all.

    Sorry John, but yes, you are a bigot. Plain and simple. That is not meant as an insult or “verybal hand grenade”. Just the truth. Biogotry based on religion is called…bigotry. Just as it was when your church supported slavery and Jim Crow. Your church is mistaken, and you need to find a better one; Episcopal, UCC, Lutheran, etc. You don’t get the high moral ground on this issue anymore. I am not being mean, or even strident. Just laying it on the line. Get used to that. I cannot believe you have not gotten called into your businesses HR office yet, truth be known.

    Lets change the words a bit, and see how they sound to you. “Bob, you are Christian, and I think that makes you immoral, and you have to change, or you are going to hell. I don’t approve of how you live, and your Christian marriage is not a real one. I will be polite to you, and kind to you, but, deep down, this is how I feel.”

    You would ACCEPT this “friendship”? Politely tolerate the person when you pass them in the hall maybe. Not offend them in the hope of educating them later (which I hope the gay people at your office will do with you in time, as your eyes are opened), but, what this hypothetical person, or you, are offering is not friendship. And anyone who would accept it as such must be very lonely and isolated indeed.
    The person who would go “Gee, we can be friends since I admire your standing by your convictions, even though they are based in error, bad theology, and fundamentalism, lets be friends!” would be a fool with no sense of self worth or self dignity.

    And trust me, you may have found a few poor folks so beaten down that they consider what you offer worth having, but I can’t think of any of the gay people I know or are related to who would not put you in your place very, very fast. And WHERE do you work? If I may ask…very personal question…and I ask pardon if it is to personal. I am not asking for the name of the firm, but, the field at least perhaps? I just can’t think of to many places where the management would not be dealing with such hostility towards your gay coworkers as your other co workers have shown in a very…well,direct, fashion.

    Chris, the answer to your question is, find a denomination with better theology, less holier than thou attitudes that have successfully turned off a whole generation or two, and tend to your own soul and go out and work with the poor, needy and dying, realizing all the time that the pastor working next to you as you do so, praying with the sick and leading his flock might be a gay guy, like the pastor who lives down the road from me.

  11. Kelly December 29, 2010 at 4:06 pm #

    one last thing I should mention. You may think, wrongly as it happens, that I don’t appreciate your (very much mistaken as I see it) attempt. You DO sound like you are at least a decent person. And, I do admire the fact you see the problem, though part of me does admire the open and blunt bigot…at least one knows where one stands in such cases, and in some ways, I think you are UNINTENTIONALlY, even more damaging. But you mean well, and that deserves to be noted.

    Michael, after re reading your post, I think I understand you. And the answer is, yes. Just like it was for holding the hisotric view on Racism, slavery and the second class status of women.

  12. John December 29, 2010 at 4:26 pm #

    Just out of curiosity, Kelly, may I ask what metric you use to determine what constitutes bigotry, real friendship, better theological backgrounds, and better churches? Also, what historiography leads you to conclude that Christians have historically supported (as I think you are implying) racism, slavery, and the “second class status” of women?

  13. Nathan December 29, 2010 at 8:04 pm #

    Chris:

    Yes, everyone needs to deal with their own sin. When the sin is yours, hating it can be difficult, but exercising one’s faith is putting off that sin, even though it is not hated.

    If someone is in unrepentant sin (which is ill-defined in this discussion), tell them what you believe and why. I would advise you to temper your response to the situation and relationship. The verbal message, which can and probably should be given in doses over time, can and should include the bad news (hell) and of course the Good News. IMO, none of the verbal should be said unless you are ready, willing and able to love and serve this unrepentant sinner. Sure, there is a level of love when you tell someone about sin. But if that’s all you’re willing to do, don’t bother because I would guess your motivation isn’t really love. . .

    Your response should not include. . .

    * Believing in and relaying misinformation about the sin or sinners of “this type”
    * Classifying or generalizing sinners of “this type”
    * Recommending flippant fixes to their behavior (if the fix you recommend doesn’t include YOU doing some work, it’s flippant)
    * Using sinners of “this type” as examples of why you think you are better
    * Using sinners of “this type” as a diversionary tactic to hide your own flaws
    * Mocking the sinner
    * Setting goals for the sinner that God Himself does not expect anyone to achieve
    * Looking down at the sinner because he does not have a social position that he cannot attain because of his sin
    * Considering this sinner the ultimate sinner

  14. Chris December 30, 2010 at 12:34 pm #

    Thanks Nathan that’s a great answer! I thought you were advocating ignoring it. I am glad I was mistaken.

    Kelly you continue to invalidate your own theology with almost every post you make. So when the bible says something clearly and our church supports the biblical truth but it does not fit in with the way we want to live our life, we should just find a different church that lines up with our own beliefs? Really? Sounds just like Post Modernism!

    I hope you enjoy the “god” you are creating!

  15. Patrick Duncan December 30, 2010 at 6:07 pm #

    Kelly,
    Real friendship means accepting another person’s version of truth, even when it isn’t truthful and when it doesn’t line up with Scripture? That’s not Jesus’ definition of friendship. He said “You are my friends, if you do what I command you”.

  16. Donald Johnson December 30, 2010 at 6:51 pm #

    (Joh 15:12) “This is my commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you.

    (Joh 15:13) Greater love has no one than this, that someone lay down his life for his friends.

    (Joh 15:14) You are my friends if you do what I command you.

    (Joh 15:15) No longer do I call you servants, for the servant does not know what his master is doing; but I have called you friends, for all that I have heard from my Father I have made known to you.

    (Joh 15:16) You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit and that your fruit should abide, so that whatever you ask the Father in my name, he may give it to you.

    (Joh 15:17) These things I command you, so that you will love one another.

  17. Chris December 30, 2010 at 7:36 pm #

    1 Corinthians 13:4–8a

    4 Love is patient and kind. Love is not jealous or boastful or proud 5 or rude. It does not demand its own way. It is not irritable, and it keeps no record of being wronged. 6 It does not rejoice about injustice but rejoices whenever the truth wins out. 7 Love never gives up, never loses faith, is always hopeful, and endures through every circumstance.

    Note v.6

  18. Nathan December 30, 2010 at 9:10 pm #

    Chris, compare 1 Cor 13 you’ve quoted against what I said before:

    [A loving resonse to homosexuality] should not include. . .

    * Believing in and relaying misinformation about the sin or sinners of “this type”
    * Classifying or generalizing sinners of “this type”
    * Recommending flippant fixes to their behavior (if the fix you recommend doesn’t include YOU doing some work, it’s flippant)
    * Using sinners of “this type” as examples of why you think you are better
    * Using sinners of “this type” as a diversionary tactic to hide your own flaws
    * Mocking the sinner
    * Setting goals for the sinner that God Himself does not expect anyone to achieve
    * Looking down at the sinner because he does not have a social position that he cannot attain because of his sin
    * Considering this sinner the ultimate sinner

    The church has a long way to go to get there, IMO.

  19. Chris December 31, 2010 at 1:20 pm #

    I agree Nathan but not all churches handle this badly and certainly it’s an issue that indeed must be handled.

    Real friendship is about love. For love to rejoice in that friendship the truth must win out and that includes the truth of sin and it’s consequences. For anyone to suggest otherwise shows a real lack of understanding about what love, truth and friendship really are.

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