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	<title>Comments on: Who is the Bible for?</title>
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		<title>By: Derek</title>
		<link>http://www.dennyburk.com/who-is-the-bible-for/#comment-59284</link>
		<dc:creator>Derek</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 Jul 2010 14:31:16 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Scott,
I never said that there isn&#039;t a need or place for academics and scholarship. What I am saying is that we&#039;re kidding ourselves if we think that we can&#039;t or don&#039;t fall into many of the same traps that the religious teachers and leaders of Christ&#039;s own day fell into, i.e. using their position to carve out positions that are convenient for academics/shepherds; allowing cultural pressures/trends to shape interpretation; pretending that Scripture can&#039;t be properly understood by laypersons; forgetting that we all need the Holy Spirit to illuminate our understanding, etc. 

I also remember a seasoned theology prof sharing how he had a mid-career realization that the temptation to try to see something in Scripture that no one has seen before is overwhelming. This temptation often leads even good scholars to spend too much time speculating (as I believe John Stott has on annihilation, for example) when most or all of their time could be spent on less esoteric and more fruitful endeavors. I believe this is the main idea Paul was driving at in I Timothy 1:3-7.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Scott,<br />
I never said that there isn&#8217;t a need or place for academics and scholarship. What I am saying is that we&#8217;re kidding ourselves if we think that we can&#8217;t or don&#8217;t fall into many of the same traps that the religious teachers and leaders of Christ&#8217;s own day fell into, i.e. using their position to carve out positions that are convenient for academics/shepherds; allowing cultural pressures/trends to shape interpretation; pretending that Scripture can&#8217;t be properly understood by laypersons; forgetting that we all need the Holy Spirit to illuminate our understanding, etc. </p>
<p>I also remember a seasoned theology prof sharing how he had a mid-career realization that the temptation to try to see something in Scripture that no one has seen before is overwhelming. This temptation often leads even good scholars to spend too much time speculating (as I believe John Stott has on annihilation, for example) when most or all of their time could be spent on less esoteric and more fruitful endeavors. I believe this is the main idea Paul was driving at in I Timothy 1:3-7.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris</title>
		<link>http://www.dennyburk.com/who-is-the-bible-for/#comment-59238</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Jul 2010 22:11:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dennyburk.com/who-is-the-bible-for/#comment-59238</guid>
		<description>Found this on an atheism website.

http://atheism.about.com/od/thebible/a/CulturalContextBibleInterpretation.htm

It&#039;s long but very interesting and relevant to this discussion!

There is extensive interaction between religion and culture: religion influences culture while culture influences religion. Most religious believers acknowledge and emphasize the former, but don&#039;t recognize the extent of the latter, assuming that their religion is based on revelations from an unchanging divinity about absolute standards of conduct. This prevents them from seeing how their religion is culturally conditioned and thus how they attribute political or economic opinions to their god.

Believers may assume that the Bible is a common touchstone which never changes no matter what the culture, but this is a false sense of security. Christianity is different from one era to the next, from one culture to the next. Christianity as Americans today practice it is different form the Christianity practiced in colonial America and both are different from the Christianity practiced in present-day South Africa, 19th century Japan, and medieval France.

 
Inconsistent Originalism

Few Christians understand or even notice the culturally conditioned ways in which they read and interpret their Bibles. As far as most people are concerned, they are simply reading the Bible the way it was meant to be read and are interpreting it in the manner which the original authors intended it to be interpreted. Steven L. McKenzie writes in How to Read the Bible: History, Prophecy, Literature:

    The recognition of the interpreter&#039;s situation as a factor in appropriating text is nothing new. Christians of all stripes have long recognized it. That is why the few churches today practice foot washing or exchange the &quot;holy kiss,&quot; despite direct commands to do so in the New Testament. Nor is the question of eating meat sacrificed to idols an issue in modem Western churches. These practices are all recognized as cultural, and modern culture has changed. ...

    Still, the extent to which the New Testament letters are permeated by the culture that produced them does not always received full consideration by modern interpreters trying to appropriate them. Thus, the text about head covering in I Corinthians 11 has a history of (ab)use and is still used today in some circles to argue for the subordination of women; yet the idea of the female body as an imperfect edition of the male body, upon which the text is based, was a product of an ancient culture and strikes a modern reader as ridiculous.

    Paul himself admits in the passage that he is dealing with a â€œcustom,â€ even though he presses theology into service for the sake of his rhetorical argument. This raises the question as to whether Paulâ€™s discussions of other issues (e.g., marriage, womenâ€™s roles, homosexuality) also reflect his rhetoric and the culture surrounding him and may no longer be tenable for the modem understandings of such matters as gender roles, sexual orientation, and the like. 

These are examples of how the New Testament texts are not only products of a specific culture which is not ours, but also how the text is interpreted based upon the readerâ€™s culture. This isnâ€™t necessarily a problem; the real problem lies is in how few Christians recognize, understand, and acknowledge that this occurs.

Instead, Christians tend to pretend that their readings of the text stand outside of their culture and that the parts of the text which they emphasize most are also independent of the culture in which they were written. Thus, the pretend to be locking on to eternal truths revealed by God and external to mere cultural habits.

Christians, whether liberal or conservative, progressive or fundamentalist, donâ€™t have consistent, coherent standards for judging certain passages as still applicable to them and others as cultural products which might be interesting for historical reasons, but not binding anymore. All of these categories have shifted over time in every denomination and church. Christians â€œwing itâ€ and divide up the text according to political and social preconceptions â€” in other words, they use thinking which is the product of their own culture in order to decide what is â€œreallyâ€ a product of another culture and what isnâ€™t.

 
Authors and Readers

Refusing to acknowledge the cultural influences operating both on reader and author impoverishes any reading created. Cultural influences â€” the political, historical, social, and economic context â€” do not invalidate an interpretation because they are part of what makes oneâ€™s interpretation their own. The ways people read the Bible in 5th century Rome, 10th century France, or 18th century China would not speak to contemporary Americans as well as modern American interpretations. And that&#039;s fine.

What is invalidated are attempts to impose those interpretations on others and use those interpretations to impose their own cultural views on others via the political process. This makes the Bible a political and cultural weapon. Insisting that one culturally influenced interpretation be adopted by everyone as the only valid one, thus determining others&#039; behavior, outlook, and beliefs, is an attempt to end political debate about how people should behave. It&#039;s no coincidence that passages which demand the subordination of certain segments of the population have been read by those who arenâ€™t subordinated as being â€œeternal truthsâ€ rather than cultural products.

This is how Americaâ€™s Christian Right fights its culture war in America: demanding that others accept their views â€” especially views on who should and should not have power, who should and should not dominate â€” because itâ€™s what the Bible requires. For example, instead of serious debates about whether abortion or capital punishment are appropriate, people trot out the Bible, declare their interpretation as the only valid one, and then insist that all society adhere to what they have proclaimed Godâ€™s Will to be.

There is no debating Godâ€™s Will, we can only follow it. Thus there is no substantive political debate, just attempts to cow others into a particular course of action.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Found this on an atheism website.</p>
<p><a href="http://atheism.about.com/od/thebible/a/CulturalContextBibleInterpretation.htm" rel="nofollow">http://atheism.about.com/od/thebible/a/CulturalContextBibleInterpretation.htm</a></p>
<p>It&#8217;s long but very interesting and relevant to this discussion!</p>
<p>There is extensive interaction between religion and culture: religion influences culture while culture influences religion. Most religious believers acknowledge and emphasize the former, but don&#8217;t recognize the extent of the latter, assuming that their religion is based on revelations from an unchanging divinity about absolute standards of conduct. This prevents them from seeing how their religion is culturally conditioned and thus how they attribute political or economic opinions to their god.</p>
<p>Believers may assume that the Bible is a common touchstone which never changes no matter what the culture, but this is a false sense of security. Christianity is different from one era to the next, from one culture to the next. Christianity as Americans today practice it is different form the Christianity practiced in colonial America and both are different from the Christianity practiced in present-day South Africa, 19th century Japan, and medieval France.</p>
<p>Inconsistent Originalism</p>
<p>Few Christians understand or even notice the culturally conditioned ways in which they read and interpret their Bibles. As far as most people are concerned, they are simply reading the Bible the way it was meant to be read and are interpreting it in the manner which the original authors intended it to be interpreted. Steven L. McKenzie writes in How to Read the Bible: History, Prophecy, Literature:</p>
<p>    The recognition of the interpreter&#8217;s situation as a factor in appropriating text is nothing new. Christians of all stripes have long recognized it. That is why the few churches today practice foot washing or exchange the &#8220;holy kiss,&#8221; despite direct commands to do so in the New Testament. Nor is the question of eating meat sacrificed to idols an issue in modem Western churches. These practices are all recognized as cultural, and modern culture has changed. &#8230;</p>
<p>    Still, the extent to which the New Testament letters are permeated by the culture that produced them does not always received full consideration by modern interpreters trying to appropriate them. Thus, the text about head covering in I Corinthians 11 has a history of (ab)use and is still used today in some circles to argue for the subordination of women; yet the idea of the female body as an imperfect edition of the male body, upon which the text is based, was a product of an ancient culture and strikes a modern reader as ridiculous.</p>
<p>    Paul himself admits in the passage that he is dealing with a â€œcustom,â€ even though he presses theology into service for the sake of his rhetorical argument. This raises the question as to whether Paulâ€™s discussions of other issues (e.g., marriage, womenâ€™s roles, homosexuality) also reflect his rhetoric and the culture surrounding him and may no longer be tenable for the modem understandings of such matters as gender roles, sexual orientation, and the like. </p>
<p>These are examples of how the New Testament texts are not only products of a specific culture which is not ours, but also how the text is interpreted based upon the readerâ€™s culture. This isnâ€™t necessarily a problem; the real problem lies is in how few Christians recognize, understand, and acknowledge that this occurs.</p>
<p>Instead, Christians tend to pretend that their readings of the text stand outside of their culture and that the parts of the text which they emphasize most are also independent of the culture in which they were written. Thus, the pretend to be locking on to eternal truths revealed by God and external to mere cultural habits.</p>
<p>Christians, whether liberal or conservative, progressive or fundamentalist, donâ€™t have consistent, coherent standards for judging certain passages as still applicable to them and others as cultural products which might be interesting for historical reasons, but not binding anymore. All of these categories have shifted over time in every denomination and church. Christians â€œwing itâ€ and divide up the text according to political and social preconceptions â€” in other words, they use thinking which is the product of their own culture in order to decide what is â€œreallyâ€ a product of another culture and what isnâ€™t.</p>
<p>Authors and Readers</p>
<p>Refusing to acknowledge the cultural influences operating both on reader and author impoverishes any reading created. Cultural influences â€” the political, historical, social, and economic context â€” do not invalidate an interpretation because they are part of what makes oneâ€™s interpretation their own. The ways people read the Bible in 5th century Rome, 10th century France, or 18th century China would not speak to contemporary Americans as well as modern American interpretations. And that&#8217;s fine.</p>
<p>What is invalidated are attempts to impose those interpretations on others and use those interpretations to impose their own cultural views on others via the political process. This makes the Bible a political and cultural weapon. Insisting that one culturally influenced interpretation be adopted by everyone as the only valid one, thus determining others&#8217; behavior, outlook, and beliefs, is an attempt to end political debate about how people should behave. It&#8217;s no coincidence that passages which demand the subordination of certain segments of the population have been read by those who arenâ€™t subordinated as being â€œeternal truthsâ€ rather than cultural products.</p>
<p>This is how Americaâ€™s Christian Right fights its culture war in America: demanding that others accept their views â€” especially views on who should and should not have power, who should and should not dominate â€” because itâ€™s what the Bible requires. For example, instead of serious debates about whether abortion or capital punishment are appropriate, people trot out the Bible, declare their interpretation as the only valid one, and then insist that all society adhere to what they have proclaimed Godâ€™s Will to be.</p>
<p>There is no debating Godâ€™s Will, we can only follow it. Thus there is no substantive political debate, just attempts to cow others into a particular course of action.</p>
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		<title>By: Brian Krieger</title>
		<link>http://www.dennyburk.com/who-is-the-bible-for/#comment-59237</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian Krieger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Jul 2010 22:05:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dennyburk.com/who-is-the-bible-for/#comment-59237</guid>
		<description>The challenge is teleporting what the scribes (Paul, Peter, David, etc.) thought.  Not only is that not something we can do, I don&#039;t think it&#039;s wise to try to discern reading between the lines.  If we were to apply that thinking, then, as an example, Matthew would be incorrect in citing Isaiah as a prophetic writing about the messiah, Christ would have been wrong to correct the Jewish culture from Mosesâ€™ time, etc.  In the end, I think that Christ went out of His way to make a grand example and say stop injecting our (self reasoned) ideals and culture (whether 1st Cen AD, BC or 20th cen AD) into His words.  Stop making law say what He didnâ€™t say.  We do run the risk of teleporting Godâ€™s word into a relativistic cultural setting one way or the other.  It seems a plain reading would be preferred over an inferential reading if at all possible.  Or so go my thoughts.  

And, just to make sure it isnâ€™t lost, I think that both of us would pray fervently that we understand and apply what we are reading.  Problems can arise in both camps (if this issue is taken as an either or, that is).  I certainly donâ€™t claim perfect understanding (as you would avoid as well, I think, well, I sure hope ;-)).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The challenge is teleporting what the scribes (Paul, Peter, David, etc.) thought.  Not only is that not something we can do, I don&#8217;t think it&#8217;s wise to try to discern reading between the lines.  If we were to apply that thinking, then, as an example, Matthew would be incorrect in citing Isaiah as a prophetic writing about the messiah, Christ would have been wrong to correct the Jewish culture from Mosesâ€™ time, etc.  In the end, I think that Christ went out of His way to make a grand example and say stop injecting our (self reasoned) ideals and culture (whether 1st Cen AD, BC or 20th cen AD) into His words.  Stop making law say what He didnâ€™t say.  We do run the risk of teleporting Godâ€™s word into a relativistic cultural setting one way or the other.  It seems a plain reading would be preferred over an inferential reading if at all possible.  Or so go my thoughts.  </p>
<p>And, just to make sure it isnâ€™t lost, I think that both of us would pray fervently that we understand and apply what we are reading.  Problems can arise in both camps (if this issue is taken as an either or, that is).  I certainly donâ€™t claim perfect understanding (as you would avoid as well, I think, well, I sure hope <img src='http://www.dennyburk.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /> ).</p>
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		<title>By: Donald Johnson</title>
		<link>http://www.dennyburk.com/who-is-the-bible-for/#comment-59236</link>
		<dc:creator>Donald Johnson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Jul 2010 20:50:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dennyburk.com/who-is-the-bible-for/#comment-59236</guid>
		<description>The very words of Scripture are defined by the culture that used those words, except that Scripture gets to define or refine the definitions, but this only happens on occasion.

What you end up doing, is teleporting text from its original context into your own context.  Everyone does this to some extent, but most try their best to reduce the amount of their doing it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The very words of Scripture are defined by the culture that used those words, except that Scripture gets to define or refine the definitions, but this only happens on occasion.</p>
<p>What you end up doing, is teleporting text from its original context into your own context.  Everyone does this to some extent, but most try their best to reduce the amount of their doing it.</p>
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		<title>By: Brian Krieger</title>
		<link>http://www.dennyburk.com/who-is-the-bible-for/#comment-59235</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian Krieger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Jul 2010 19:43:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dennyburk.com/who-is-the-bible-for/#comment-59235</guid>
		<description>I suppose I see act as a Berean means study the scriptures, not culture first, then the scriptures.  I see the view of the adding information not originally in the bible as a contradiction of the idea of being a Berean (i.e. eagerly studying the scriptures).  And, I suppose, saying culture is what ultimately defines the meaning is flawed since we donâ€™t a) know Christâ€™s thoughts (to speak specifically to this) and b) we still only have a good idea of Jewish culture.  You have to assume what pieces of culture dictate meaning (and, in this case, attempt to peer into the mind of Christ).  Over and over God states that we let the scriptures inform us.  I guess I just see that God did write them to us to be understood plainly.  I donâ€™t think that it means that all scripture is easy, itâ€™s not, but thatâ€™s a fractional exception (ha ha, punny), not a rule.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I suppose I see act as a Berean means study the scriptures, not culture first, then the scriptures.  I see the view of the adding information not originally in the bible as a contradiction of the idea of being a Berean (i.e. eagerly studying the scriptures).  And, I suppose, saying culture is what ultimately defines the meaning is flawed since we donâ€™t a) know Christâ€™s thoughts (to speak specifically to this) and b) we still only have a good idea of Jewish culture.  You have to assume what pieces of culture dictate meaning (and, in this case, attempt to peer into the mind of Christ).  Over and over God states that we let the scriptures inform us.  I guess I just see that God did write them to us to be understood plainly.  I donâ€™t think that it means that all scripture is easy, itâ€™s not, but thatâ€™s a fractional exception (ha ha, punny), not a rule.</p>
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		<title>By: Donald Johnson</title>
		<link>http://www.dennyburk.com/who-is-the-bible-for/#comment-59233</link>
		<dc:creator>Donald Johnson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Jul 2010 16:49:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dennyburk.com/who-is-the-bible-for/#comment-59233</guid>
		<description>If any readers wish to be Bereans and study about what I wrote on Mat 19, I strongly recommend David Instone-Brewer&#039;s book, &quot;Divorce and Remarriage, the Social and Literary Context.&quot;  This is the book that showed me that I could misunderstand Scripture in a big way by not understanding the cultural context.

A &quot;simple reading of the text&quot; or &quot;plain reading of the text&quot; is often a rationale given for understanding text out of context, and ANY text taken out of context can become a pretext for almost anything.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If any readers wish to be Bereans and study about what I wrote on Mat 19, I strongly recommend David Instone-Brewer&#8217;s book, &#8220;Divorce and Remarriage, the Social and Literary Context.&#8221;  This is the book that showed me that I could misunderstand Scripture in a big way by not understanding the cultural context.</p>
<p>A &#8220;simple reading of the text&#8221; or &#8220;plain reading of the text&#8221; is often a rationale given for understanding text out of context, and ANY text taken out of context can become a pretext for almost anything.</p>
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		<title>By: Scott</title>
		<link>http://www.dennyburk.com/who-is-the-bible-for/#comment-59232</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Jul 2010 16:31:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dennyburk.com/who-is-the-bible-for/#comment-59232</guid>
		<description>I think that&#039;s a gross generaliztion Derek. Secular academics may indeed go down some strange paths, but Christian academics work diligently to bring clarity to the biblical text. Yes, they make mistakes.

If we&#039;re speaking in generalities, I would contend that the plain, simple reading is often the culprit of strange readings of the text. As Donald said, the text is for us, not to us. That&#039;s a big difference. If we&#039;re truly serious about wanting to understand the text, what&#039;s wrong with studying the first-century world? Why shouldn&#039;t we work diligently to situate the text? That&#039;s not just the domain of biblical scholarship, but also the responsibility (IMHO) of faithful biblical study.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think that&#8217;s a gross generaliztion Derek. Secular academics may indeed go down some strange paths, but Christian academics work diligently to bring clarity to the biblical text. Yes, they make mistakes.</p>
<p>If we&#8217;re speaking in generalities, I would contend that the plain, simple reading is often the culprit of strange readings of the text. As Donald said, the text is for us, not to us. That&#8217;s a big difference. If we&#8217;re truly serious about wanting to understand the text, what&#8217;s wrong with studying the first-century world? Why shouldn&#8217;t we work diligently to situate the text? That&#8217;s not just the domain of biblical scholarship, but also the responsibility (IMHO) of faithful biblical study.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris</title>
		<link>http://www.dennyburk.com/who-is-the-bible-for/#comment-59230</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Jul 2010 15:54:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dennyburk.com/who-is-the-bible-for/#comment-59230</guid>
		<description>Spot on Derek!

&quot;Ironically, it is often academics and not the ordinary rube who take us down some very kooky and un-biblical paths,&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Spot on Derek!</p>
<p>&#8220;Ironically, it is often academics and not the ordinary rube who take us down some very kooky and un-biblical paths,&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Muff Potter</title>
		<link>http://www.dennyburk.com/who-is-the-bible-for/#comment-59225</link>
		<dc:creator>Muff Potter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Jul 2010 03:37:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dennyburk.com/who-is-the-bible-for/#comment-59225</guid>
		<description>Such a wide and diverse range of comments, and that&#039;s a good thing.
It&#039;s precisely why I take a Jeffersonian approach to Scripture, but not necessarily in lock-step with all of Jefferson&#039;s views on Scripture.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Such a wide and diverse range of comments, and that&#8217;s a good thing.<br />
It&#8217;s precisely why I take a Jeffersonian approach to Scripture, but not necessarily in lock-step with all of Jefferson&#8217;s views on Scripture.</p>
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		<title>By: Brian Krieger</title>
		<link>http://www.dennyburk.com/who-is-the-bible-for/#comment-59222</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian Krieger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Jul 2010 21:50:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dennyburk.com/who-is-the-bible-for/#comment-59222</guid>
		<description>Derek:

Well said (and James K., too!).

I might not categorize dispensationalism as quite in the category as open theism, egalitarianism and the acceptance of homosexuality, though (taking a plain text and obscuring it or expanding it as Donald does above).  But I am not adroit enough to defend either side (not that I am in other categories, either, mind you).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Derek:</p>
<p>Well said (and James K., too!).</p>
<p>I might not categorize dispensationalism as quite in the category as open theism, egalitarianism and the acceptance of homosexuality, though (taking a plain text and obscuring it or expanding it as Donald does above).  But I am not adroit enough to defend either side (not that I am in other categories, either, mind you).</p>
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