Comments on: Tim Keller at Berkeley and Stanford http://www.dennyburk.com/tim-keller-at-berkeley-and-stanford/ A commentary on theology, politics, and culture Sun, 12 Feb 2012 03:54:28 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Ben Stevenson http://www.dennyburk.com/tim-keller-at-berkeley-and-stanford/#comment-34013 Ben Stevenson Wed, 19 Mar 2008 22:56:43 +0000 http://www.dennyburk.com/?p=1540#comment-34013 Another video - Authors@Google: Tim Keller http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kxup3OS5ZhQ Another video – Authors@Google: Tim Keller

]]> By: Kevin J http://www.dennyburk.com/tim-keller-at-berkeley-and-stanford/#comment-34011 Kevin J Wed, 19 Mar 2008 21:43:04 +0000 http://www.dennyburk.com/?p=1540#comment-34011 David H, I don't see that the desire to go to heaven would be the same as the desire for Jesus as the treasure of your life. Many people are dying every day who desire to go to heaven but have never desired Jesus as the treasure of their life. If a persons "belief" in Jesus is only a "fire insurance policy" then they will NOT go to heaven. Really now, how many people would tell you that they do not want to go to heaven? David H,

I don’t see that the desire to go to heaven would be the same as the desire for Jesus as the treasure of your life.

Many people are dying every day who desire to go to heaven but have never desired Jesus as the treasure of their life. If a persons “belief” in Jesus is only a “fire insurance policy” then they will NOT go to heaven. Really now, how many people would tell you that they do not want to go to heaven?

]]> By: david h http://www.dennyburk.com/tim-keller-at-berkeley-and-stanford/#comment-34010 david h Wed, 19 Mar 2008 21:31:41 +0000 http://www.dennyburk.com/?p=1540#comment-34010 I think you guys reading too much into the parable. Jesus is trying to make a point about His resurection. So trying to form any theology based on the supposed thoughts of a fictional character in a parable, that has nothing to do with the meaning of the parable, might not be the thing to do. I also have a question for everybody how would predestination factor into if someone wants to go to Hell. If God does not choose someone to go to Heaven does that person ever have the desire to go to Heaven? I think you guys reading too much into the parable. Jesus is trying to make a point about His resurection. So trying to form any theology based on the supposed thoughts of a fictional character in a parable, that has nothing to do with the meaning of the parable, might not be the thing to do. I also have a question for everybody how would predestination factor into if someone wants to go to Hell. If God does not choose someone to go to Heaven does that person ever have the desire to go to Heaven?

]]> By: Darius http://www.dennyburk.com/tim-keller-at-berkeley-and-stanford/#comment-34009 Darius Wed, 19 Mar 2008 20:57:08 +0000 http://www.dennyburk.com/?p=1540#comment-34009 He seems indifferent to his location. Maybe he's just resigned to the fact, I don't know. He does show that he still doesn't get it, treating Lazarus like a servant. He seems indifferent to his location. Maybe he’s just resigned to the fact, I don’t know. He does show that he still doesn’t get it, treating Lazarus like a servant.

]]> By: Kevin J http://www.dennyburk.com/tim-keller-at-berkeley-and-stanford/#comment-34008 Kevin J Wed, 19 Mar 2008 20:49:52 +0000 http://www.dennyburk.com/?p=1540#comment-34008 Darius, I think that the rich man implies that he would not want to come to hell if he had a choice at that point by asking Abraham to send people from the dead to witness to the rich man's family so that they would believe and not go to hell. If he really "wanted" to be there then he would also want his family to be there, wouldn't he? Darius,

I think that the rich man implies that he would not want to come to hell if he had a choice at that point by asking Abraham to send people from the dead to witness to the rich man’s family so that they would believe and not go to hell.

If he really “wanted” to be there then he would also want his family to be there, wouldn’t he?

]]> By: Darius http://www.dennyburk.com/tim-keller-at-berkeley-and-stanford/#comment-34007 Darius Wed, 19 Mar 2008 20:06:06 +0000 http://www.dennyburk.com/?p=1540#comment-34007 Kevin, Keller discussed the issue of names in that same sermon. He said that many scholars believe that it's pointing out the fact that in heaven, the last shall be first and those who went ignored by the world shall be known (thus the name) in heaven. Meanwhile, those who found their worth apart from God on earth and in praise from other men will be nameless in hell. Whether or not that's the reason Jesus assigned a name, I don't know. That's Keller's standpoint. Kevin, Keller discussed the issue of names in that same sermon. He said that many scholars believe that it’s pointing out the fact that in heaven, the last shall be first and those who went ignored by the world shall be known (thus the name) in heaven. Meanwhile, those who found their worth apart from God on earth and in praise from other men will be nameless in hell. Whether or not that’s the reason Jesus assigned a name, I don’t know. That’s Keller’s standpoint.

]]> By: Darius http://www.dennyburk.com/tim-keller-at-berkeley-and-stanford/#comment-34006 Darius Wed, 19 Mar 2008 19:56:01 +0000 http://www.dennyburk.com/?p=1540#comment-34006 Tristan, you bring up the story of the Rich man and Lazarus. Keller actually mentioned that in one of his sermons that led up to his new book. He points out that the Rich Man doesn't ask to be rescued from hell. "Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus to dip the end of his finger in water and cool my tongue, for I am in anguish in this flame." Why didn't he ask to be tranferred to heaven? Or for some more lasting peace and soothing than just a quick lick of water? Instead of asking to get out of hell, he asks Lazarus to come down to it. Tristan, you bring up the story of the Rich man and Lazarus. Keller actually mentioned that in one of his sermons that led up to his new book. He points out that the Rich Man doesn’t ask to be rescued from hell. “Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus to dip the end of his finger in water and cool my tongue, for I am in anguish in this flame.”

Why didn’t he ask to be tranferred to heaven? Or for some more lasting peace and soothing than just a quick lick of water? Instead of asking to get out of hell, he asks Lazarus to come down to it.

]]> By: Kevin J http://www.dennyburk.com/tim-keller-at-berkeley-and-stanford/#comment-33997 Kevin J Wed, 19 Mar 2008 17:46:56 +0000 http://www.dennyburk.com/?p=1540#comment-33997 Tristan, I am not so sure that the rich man and Lazarus is a parable. Parables usually do not have a person's name involved. However, I do not agree that the people condemned to the lake of fire will actually WANT to be there. But there will be no true repentance allowed by God but only eternal torment and those who reject Christ will suffer MORE than those who never had a chance to repent (Sodom & Gomorrah). I believe this is an eternal sorrow and torment for their rejection. Also, I do want to clarify that biblically God is everywhere including hell. The lake of fire is direct eternal torment directly from the hand of God. God is omnipresent but His glory is only shown and enjoyed where God wills that it be. Tristan,

I am not so sure that the rich man and Lazarus is a parable. Parables usually do not have a person’s name involved.

However, I do not agree that the people condemned to the lake of fire will actually WANT to be there. But there will be no true repentance allowed by God but only eternal torment and those who reject Christ will suffer MORE than those who never had a chance to repent (Sodom & Gomorrah). I believe this is an eternal sorrow and torment for their rejection.

Also, I do want to clarify that biblically God is everywhere including hell. The lake of fire is direct eternal torment directly from the hand of God. God is omnipresent but His glory is only shown and enjoyed where God wills that it be.

]]> By: Tristan http://www.dennyburk.com/tim-keller-at-berkeley-and-stanford/#comment-33995 Tristan Wed, 19 Mar 2008 16:19:59 +0000 http://www.dennyburk.com/?p=1540#comment-33995 Thanks, to all for the answers. They are helpful. I guess the other part of my question is, do we think it is fair to say (as Keller suggests) that all those in hell don't want out of hell. Keller says that it's not like God is keeping people in hell who don't want to be there. I wonder about the person who has been worshiping a tree their whole life, when they stand before the Lord of the universe won't they realize their error (but be sent to hell nonetheless)? Or would we suggest that even when faced with the majesty of God they will still reject Him and choose to be separated from Him for eternity? I realize that the Rich Man and Lazarus is a parable and can't be taken too literally but in that parable it doesn't seem like the rich man wants to be where he is. It seems he has realized his error but still must suffer knowing he was wrong. Thanks for the replies. Thanks, to all for the answers. They are helpful. I guess the other part of my question is, do we think it is fair to say (as Keller suggests) that all those in hell don’t want out of hell. Keller says that it’s not like God is keeping people in hell who don’t want to be there. I wonder about the person who has been worshiping a tree their whole life, when they stand before the Lord of the universe won’t they realize their error (but be sent to hell nonetheless)? Or would we suggest that even when faced with the majesty of God they will still reject Him and choose to be separated from Him for eternity? I realize that the Rich Man and Lazarus is a parable and can’t be taken too literally but in that parable it doesn’t seem like the rich man wants to be where he is. It seems he has realized his error but still must suffer knowing he was wrong. Thanks for the replies.

]]> By: Kevin J http://www.dennyburk.com/tim-keller-at-berkeley-and-stanford/#comment-33987 Kevin J Wed, 19 Mar 2008 13:58:04 +0000 http://www.dennyburk.com/?p=1540#comment-33987 Tristan, I do not think anyone would actually "want" to go to hell if they truly understood what hell actually is. I understand your question and I have a hard time believing that a person would actually "want" to go to hell. I believe a person who will not submit to God "wants" to be anywhere but where God God is. Biblically speaking the only place in eternity where God "is not" is hell, therefore they "want" to go to hell. I do not know if this helps but I tried. Kevin Tristan,

I do not think anyone would actually “want” to go to hell if they truly understood what hell actually is. I understand your question and I have a hard time believing that a person would actually “want” to go to hell. I believe a person who will not submit to God “wants” to be anywhere but where God God is. Biblically speaking the only place in eternity where God “is not” is hell, therefore they “want” to go to hell.

I do not know if this helps but I tried.

Kevin

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