For example, the Bible says a wife should respect her husband, this is supposed to be a difference? Does this mean a husband does not need to respect his wife? What a bunch of hooey.

Grudem goes to extreme lengths to claim that a while a husband should submit to his wife, this submission is different than his wife’s submission to him. I find this also a lot of hooey and if he can destroy the meaning of a “one another” verse than he can destory others resulting in something far from the Christianity I know.

I have to live in a world where my very being is challenged and rejected because I don’t fit the norm.

If I take those things that make me different from the norm and do something sinful, that is bad. I personally believe that I can take those differences and do something that glorifies God. I don’t think that you do, tho. Therein lies the rub. You think that the differences ARE sin in and of themselves. I don’t walk like, talk like, look like, or even like the things like what you deem to be the typical man. I have to keep telling myself: there is nothing biblical about me emulating the Marlboro Man.

It seems that you would label some of my God-given attributes as “gay” or sin just because they aren’t up to some trumped up manliness quotient. This is a huge deal. I’m expected to change parts of me that God doesn’t intend for me to change, doesn’t want me to change, and so, isn’t going to help me to change. That leaves me very exasperated about how I fit into the church, what it means to be a Christian, and how I should glorify God.

From my experience, the gay / not-gay categories that people use encompass WAY MORE than what you said is the biblical definition of homosexuality. So, I stand by my point 3B — the Bible may be clear about homosexuality, but people add to it.

Maybe to help you understand what I’m talking about — what would you do if 99% of your church truly expected that in order for you to be a woman of God, you needed to blink your eyes two times as frequently as you naturally do? I’m sure you could do it, but how would that make you feel? I dare you to try it — go to church this Sunday and consciously change that attribute about yourself. Would you feel silly? Would you question how this is making you a better Christian woman? Would you wonder why God gave you the blinking reflexes He did? Would you want clear scripture references to support the requirement rather than just cultural references, scientific references, or other extra-biblical references?

Much that you say is all fine and good.

1. If you are right about the man purse example, then I agree. A “man purse” is not a purse – it is a bag that only men use, at least in Europe and Latin America. Very few men use one, but it is socially acceptable.

2. I agree somewhat with this point. I would say that not all men do the same things, but all men need to learn what is the range of appropriate behavior, dress, and manerisms for men. So, in a way I agree that men don’t always know what is appropriate to masculinity. I agree that Wild at Heart may not resonate with all men or even be helpful to most men.

However, men need to have strong male role models who can help them learn to develop their masculinity.

Part of being a man is growing up, getting a job, finding a good Christian woman to marry, settling down, and having kids. When I say that “men are husbands” I was thinking of the Greek word “aner.” It can mean either man or husband, since men are also husbands almost 100% of the time.

I think that in our culture at this point in time, we are trained to focus more on the exception rather than the rule. We look for the loophole in order to either negate or modify the rule. It is not that way in all cultures and all languages. The norm is what is important.

Even in English we have the usage of “man” to mean “husband” and “woman” to mean “wife”, or even “sexual partner.” “My man” or “my woman” sounds offensive to our ear. It was not so in NT times.

If a man is called to celebacy, they are still masculine and the admonitions to responsible living are similar. The Bible does allow for the gift of singleness, which is a rare gift that can be used greatly in God’s kingdom if one actually has it.

What we have a lot of in our society at this time is single men who are giving themselves to a sinful lifestyle as if they were still in jr. high or high school. They are not celebate or even always responsible. They just live for pleasure. There are many women living this way, too. They need to get married and settle down.

I am assuming that you are seeking to live a pure life, but are in the single category. If you are not living a pure, godly lifestyle, then you need to make some changes.

However, the reality is that most people – even most people in the Bible – get or got married.

Singleness is the exception.

Christians should operate under the assumption that men and women will get married, and should get married. Single people need to prepare themselves for marriage, since most will marry.

Single people who do not get married need to accept that they are different from the majority, and prepare themselves to handle the challenges of being different. If it is because of God’s call on a person’s life, then God will give grace to that person.

If He doesn’t give a single person grace to be happy and celibate, then that person doesn’t have the gift of singleness that Paul spoke of, and he or she should seek a partner of the opposite sex to marry.

3A. Nathan, I think that people are way, too honest about their sexual inclinations. we are bombarded with anyone and every one’s ideas about sex. The Bible is clear. We have men. We have women. We have male. We have female.

There is not “intersexed” category. There is no third gender. That is an idea that comes from pagan mythology – Satan, IOW. it exists in Gnosticism. It exists in Hinduism. It even exists in ancient Mayan beliefs.

It has nothing to do with the Bible.

Nathan:
3B. The definitions of heterosexual/homosexual/gay are ill-defined & contrived >>>>>

I disagree, Nathan. In the Bible it is clear that those who use other bodily organs, – or use sexual organs in ways that God did not design, – in order to find sexual gratification are an abomination to the Lord.

Otherwise, who are the “ones who have anal sex” and “those who abandon the proper use of the woman” and “women burning with lust for one another” that we are introduced to in Romans 1?

Also, the Bible teaches that all sex – including heterosexual sex – outside of the marriage bed is sin.

Does God have to draw us diagrams in order for us to get the idea?

Nathan, again, I don’t know what specific issues you are dealing with personally. I should ask you what you believe about Christ. Who is He? What has He done for you? What is the meaning of His death on the cross?

As I approach my sexuality as openly and honestly as possible I’ve learned a few things:

1. People try to make something gender-specific that isn’t and expect me to live up to that idea which leads to confusion. (men using a European carry-all and you saying that it is relevant, albeit secondary, to a discussion of gender is a perfect example of this)
2. Men generally do not know what true masculinity is — they assume that masculinity is singular and their experience is an example of it. (See Wild at Heart for a great example of this)
3A. People aren’t honest about their sexuality. Any doubts, emotions, experiences, etc. that stray from a heterosexual ideal are very rarely communicated.
3B. The definitions of heterosexual/homosexual/gay are ill-defined & contrived

I chalk it all up to one side of fallen humanity trying to foist their ideas on another side of fallen humanity.

There are a couple of key biblical figures that were single and therefore did not fulfill and/or experience the supposed grand purpose.

Jesus himself did not follow what you call the original purpose. In my opinion, singles are doing quite well to follow the example of Jesus rather than following the example of Adam. Also, God, through Paul, has given people the choice to marry or stay single and said that it is better to stay single when a person can refrain from sexual interaction (physically & mentally).

Singleness is not taken seriously by most people. This is a HUGE burden that singles (by choice and circumstance) have to bear.

The goal of young people should be to glorify God and consider the option of singleness seriously, honestly and unselfishly. I think that honest evaluations would result in more people opting for singleness than what we see today.

I don’t think you know the true nature of your new “paradigm.”

I feel compassion for those who have genital malformations, but also know that the grace of God is sufficient for all of us struggling with physical limitations. “Intersexed” is not a new kind of humanity. They are fully human, created in the image of God, but with flaws caused by the effects of the curse of the fall on God’s creation.

We look forward to the regeneration of all things.

Meanwhile, God’s creation groans, and Christ is sufficient even for that.

I saw the intersex discussion was at the recent CBE conference, but I did not attend, so I do not know what was said. Intersex people exist, androgyny is different, it is denying differences between females and males, which do exist.

I do have questions about such people, there are many ways things can go wrong in sexual development.
I feel compassion for them.

Yes, there is a difference. Biblically speaking, men – starting with the first man – were created to be husbands and fathers. God is responsible for that programming.

I understand that because of circumstances, not choice, a person might not be able to completely fulfill that purpose. We live in a fallen world where things do not always work the way that they are supposed to.

Even so, God’s original purpose has not been erased. Men were created to be husbands and fathers. Adam, the first male man, is the prototype, the pattern. He was not single even one day of his life, since he was created as an adult human male. Eve was married from the moment of her creation.

Adult singleness is not the norm, nor should it become the norm. The goal of young people is and should be to grow up, settle down, get married, and have some children.

Everything else is an exception to that rule. Yes, there are a few who are called by God to satisfied singleness.

Besides, I know of alleged “intersexed” people who do get married and are heterosexuals.