So it now seems that you have changed your position. Which is fine.

Henry,

I don’t think that I have changed my position. I feel that although the verses may not be original to Paul, they should remain in the main text of any translation and be acoompanied by a note. In fact, they usually are accompanied by a note which indicates that they were either in the margin, or have changed location in the text.

The main reason why something would be in the margin is if those verse were not in the original manuscript.

There are complementarians who agree that these verses were in the margin – see the NET Bible notes.

The problem is that we than have to decide what this means about the original text. I don’t have an answer, and I don’t think anyone can say for sure, unless they believe in providential oversight by the Holy Spirit throughout history. If we believed in that, we would probably still be learning Latin in high school. Which I did, but not for that reason.

I only ‘bowed out’ after the debate had gone on long enough to became clear that you were not refuting my arguments. I engaged your substantive arguments but you did not respond:

For example, the arguments you bring forth just above were responded to by me in the comments. The fact that you made them again just their shows that you have either forgotten what I said or did not read my comment carefully when it was made.

E.g:

1) regarding eta I said see Grudem in EFBT. You did not explain why his arguments were wrong.
2) Regarding the ‘law says’ I addressed this in a later part of this comment: http://www.dennyburk.com/jbmw-online/#comment-57841
You did not engage that.
3) Regarding 1Cor14:33-36 contradicting other scripture see my response to the 3 best examples you gave (comment 59) in comment 65: http://www.dennyburk.com/jbmw-online/#comment-57888
You did not respond to this.
4) In more than one of the comments I also made the point that the fact that your view is a minority position and is not favoured even among most egalitarians speaks volumes. Are they all just dumb and do not understand your position properly? Your providing the odd counter example did not change this fact.

What I do in my teaching is combine Hamilton’s chiasm with Fleming’s and Nyland’s insight into eta, the expletive of repudiation found twice in 1 Cor 14:36, as well as the fact that 1 Cor 14:34-35 contradicts other Scripture about people teaching and that “law says” refers to the so-called Oral Torah of the Pharisees.

In other words, comps are aligning with the teaching of people that Paul opposes in their extracted understanding of 1 Cor 14:34-35. This is why it is so important not to extract text from its pericope.

I already interacted with you on this subject in this post:

http://www.dennyburk.com/jbmw-online/

Unless you have some ‘new’ argument you got from Fleming since then, I don’t see the reason to read him.

Thanks for reading that book by Hamilton. He does not actually show that 1 Cor 14:36ff repudiates what comes immediately before. If you want to investigate that aspect, see Bruce Fleming’s “Familiar Leadership Heresies Uncovered”.

I have read the book you refer to (Why not women) – not that one has to check out every claim. And I answered those arguments on a previous post (see below) where we discussed this whole issue in depth.

Sue

I believe you intimated in a previous discussion that Donald and my argument was ‘moot’ because you did not believe the verses were original to Paul.

I think all this discussion occurred in this post:

http://www.dennyburk.com/jbmw-online/

So it now seems that you have changed your position. Which is fine.

Henry

If someone claimed that I was aligned with some Corinthian legalists opposed to Paul, I would certainly want to check out the reasons they claim this. I would want to make sure I was not doing that and if necessary, err on the side of caution.

But each his own.

I don’t think that these verses should be removed from any translation. I find the note in the NIV 2011 quite adequate. Clearly, there is difficulty reconciling this text with chapter 11. We all read the text according the light God gives us.