The fact that a certain percentage of mosques have signed a particular statement is about as relevant as counting up the number of churches that have signed a statement condemning killings of abortion doctors or the molestation of children by clergy.

I still challenge either of you to prove the contention that 15-40% of Muslims in Western nations support terrorism.

With regard to the killing of civilians, let’s not forget that the U.S., Britain and our allies intentionally killed hundreds of thousands, perhaps millions, of civilians in the WWII bombings of Europe and Japan. Oh, that’s different, you say, because we were at war. Well, many Muslims believe that their countries have been unjustly invaded and occupied and that they are at war. I do not at all approve of the killing of civilians, but I do think we need to try to see things from a clear perspective.

As far as the Global Attitudes Survey, I think the 2002 numbers may have reflected a groundswell of resentment and frustration at perceived injustices and aggression against Muslims. I can’t help but wonder how many Americans approved of the killing of enemy civilians in WW II. The 2007 numbers reflect a calming and maturing of thought.

I think both of you are clearly spinning the numbers to your biases, but that’s to be expected. I would argue that it is much fairer to use the “often/sometimes” numbers as the “rarely” numbers probably reflect a “last option” mentality. Again, how many upstanding Americans would kill perceived enemy civilians in a desperate situation.

It is also absurd to aggregate the percentages as you did and say that almost 4 of out 10 Muslims support terrorism. The reason is that these countries are of vastly different sizes.

The regions that most strongly support suicide bombings – the Palestianian territories and Jordan – are among the smallest populated countries on earth. On the other hand, the largest Muslim countries in the world, Indonesia and Pakistan, have only 9-10% in the often/sometimes category.

If you factor in the Muslim population of each country, you get a very different picture.

population / Muslim pop. / %often/sometimes / number support terrorism

Indonesia 228 / 196 / 10% / 20 million
Pakistan 173 / 168 / 9% / 15 m.
Bangladesh 162 / 144 / 20% / 29 m.
Nigeria 146 / 73 / 42% / 31 m.
Egypt 77 / 69 / 8% / 5.5 m.
Turkey 72 / 72 / 16% / 11 m.
Morocco 33 / 33 / 11% / 3.5 m.
Malaysia 27 / 16 / 26% / 4 m.
Mali 12 / 11 /39% / 4 m.
Senegal 12 / 11 / 18% / 2 m.

TOTAL 942/ 792 / 15.8% / 125 million

The bottom line is that only 15.8% of the Muslims in the largest countries surveyed think suicide bombings are either often or sometimes justified.

ex-preacher,
While I applaud the change in view toward Al Qaeda, I wonder what is the reason for this decline in favorability? e.g. In 2002, 38% of Pakistani Muslims said suicide bombing against civilians is justified. In 2007, only 18% said that it is justified. Did their theology changed in the past several years? i.e., When the Muslims called for the jihad with their suicide bombing a few years back, they justified it with the Quran. Now a few years later, they’ve come to the realization that the Quran did not support suicide bombing? I think that would be unlike. There is no evidence that widespread anti-violence teaching was being taught. On the other hand, there seems to be some inconsistency in these polls. For instance, Pakistan is supposed to have the least favorable view toward suicide bombing and Al Qaeda. They have refuse help from the U.S. to rout out Al Qaeda and have done very little on their own. One last thing about the respondent in the 2007 poll, 10% of the Pakistani Muslims responded with don’t know or refuse to answer. This is a sizable group that’s confused about Islamic tenets to kill or not to kill innocent civilians for the cause of Islam. Many of the other countries have a similar high percentage that responded with DK/Refused also.

145 Muslim organizations, mosques and imams endorsed a statement that includes the following text:

I counted 6 mosques out of how many mosques do you think there is in the U.S., 2,000? That would make it 0.3 of 1% of all the mosques in the U.S. have come out and signed this Fatwa. Or in terms of the ratio of Islamic organizations to mosques, it would be 7.25%. Don’t get me wrong I think this is great that Muslims are speaking out against extremism, but I hardly think that qualify as “Many Muslims have denounced terrorism”, do you?

From the Pew report.
“Question: Some people think that suicide bombing and other forms of violence against civilian targets are justified in order to defend Islam from its enemies. Do you personally feel that this kind of violence is often justified, sometimes justified, rarely justified or never justified?”

Let me put the worst spin on this.
Turkey 25% says is justified (often/sometimes/rarely combined).
Egypt 51% says is justified (often/sometimes/rarely combined).
Jordan 50% says is justified (often/sometimes/rarely combined).
Kuwait 28% says is justified (often/sometimes/rarely combined).
Lebannon 54% says is justified (often/sometimes/rarely combined).
Morocco 20% says is justified (often/sometimes/rarely combined).
Palest. ter. 81% says is justified (often/sometimes/rarely combined).
Pakistan 18% says is justified (often/sometimes/rarely combined).
Bangladesh 23% says is justified (often/sometimes/rarely combined).
Indonesia 23% says is justified (often/sometimes/rarely combined).
Malaysia 44% says is justified (often/sometimes/rarely combined).
Ethiopia 31% says is justified (often/sometimes/rarely combined).
Mali 56% says is justified (often/sometimes/rarely combined).
Nigeria 53% says is justified (often/sometimes/rarely combined).
Senegal 33% says is justified (often/sometimes/rarely combined).
Tanzania 20% says is justified (often/sometimes/rarely combined).

Again I welcome this drop from 2002 but why the change of heart? If you average out these percentages you still get 38% of Muslims who thinks that suicide bombing is justified. That’s almost 4 out of every 10 Muslims. It is not the majority I concede, but hardly a small percentage. And again, I wonder what the impetus for this change of heart is? Is it theological? I doubt it since there is no evidence of any large scale denunciation of violence from the Muslim leaders. My guess is that it is for political and public relations expediency.

Finally while this change in tone is good, ultimately these countries need to back their rhetoric with actions and clamp down on all these violence and intolerance.

% of Muslims who sympathize with terrorism as legitimate:

Turkey – 44%
Egypt – 60
Jordan – 58
Kuwait – 31
Lebanon – 54
Morocco – 31
Palestine – 94
Pakistan – 28
Bang. – 27
Indonesia – 23
Malaysia – 49
Ethiopia – 40
Mali – 64
Nigeria – 61
Senegal – 37
Tanzania – 29

Now consider that those countries represent nearly a billion people (of whom almost all are Muslim) and you get an idea of just how big a problem it is to fight Islamic terror when almost half of Muslims support it.

“Muslim publics around the world
increasingly reject suicide bombing and other forms of violence against civilian targets in the defense of Islam. Overall, majorities in 15 of 16 Muslim publics surveyed say that
suicide bombings can be rarely or never justified.

Fully 77% of Muslims in Indonesia – and nearly as many in Bangladesh, Pakistan and Tanzania – say that such tactics are never justified.”

Suicide bombings are justified…
Often Sometimes Rarely Never DK
Middle East % % % % %
Turkey 3 13 9 56 19
Egypt 2 6 43 40 9
Jordan 6 17 27 42 8
Kuwait 9 12 7 69 4
Lebanon 9 25 20 46 1
Morocco 6 5 9 69 12
Palest. 41 29 11 6 12

Asia
Pakistan 4 5 9 72 10
Bangladesh 6 14 3 73 3
Indonesia 3 7 13 77 2
Malaysia 4 22 18 51 5

Africa
Ethiopia 5 13 13 60 9
Mali 21 18 17 36 8
Nigeria 10 32 11 39 8
Senegal 5 13 15 63 4
Tanzania 4 7 9 71 9

http://pewglobal.org/reports/pdf/257.pdf

(page 55 of report)

“In the light of the teachings of the QurӒan and Sunnah we clearly and strongly state:

1. All acts of terrorism targeting civilians are haram (forbidden) in Islam.

2. It is haram for a Muslim to cooperate with any individual or group that is involved in any act of terrorism or violence.

3. It is the civic and religious duty of Muslims to cooperate with law enforcement authorities to protect the lives of all civilians.”

http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php/features/articles/fiqh_council_of_north_america_issues_fatwa_against_terrorism/

In the wake of the terrorist attacks on 9/11, U.S. public officials seemed to have no idea whether or not many Muslims supported the bombings. This troubled Gallup Chairman and CEO Jim Clifton, who felt that “no one in Washington had any idea what 1.3 billion Muslims were thinking, and yet we were working on intricate strategies that were going to change the world for all time.” Clifton commissioned his company to undertake the enormous job.

The result is “Who Speaks for Islam? What a Billion Muslims Really Think,” based on six years of research and more than 50,000 interviews representing 1.3 billion Muslims who reside in more than 35 nations that are predominantly Muslim or have sizable Muslim populations. Representing more than 90% of the world’s Muslim community, it makes this poll the largest, most comprehensive study of its kind.

What the data reveal and the authors illuminate may surprise you:

Muslims and Americans are equally likely to reject attacks on civilians as morally unjustifiable.

Large majorities of Muslims would guarantee free speech if it were up to them to write a new constitution AND they say religious leaders should have no direct role in drafting that constitution.

Muslims around the world say that what they LEAST admire about the West is its perceived moral decay and breakdown of traditional values — the same answers that Americans themselves give when asked this question.

When asked about their dreams for the future, Muslims say they want better jobs and security, not conflict and violence.

Muslims say the most important thing Westerners can do to improve relations with their societies is to change their negative views toward Muslims and respect Islam.

The research suggests that conflict between Muslims and the West is NOT inevitable and, in fact, is more about policy than principles. “However,” caution Esposito and Mogahed, “until and unless decision makers listen directly to the people and gain an accurate understanding of this conflict, extremists on all sides will continue to gain ground.”