Comments on: SBC Controversy over Speaking in Tongues http://www.dennyburk.com/mckissic-gate-and-sbc-controversy-over-speaking-in-tongues/ A commentary on theology, politics, and culture Sun, 12 Feb 2012 06:07:42 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Debbie wimmers http://www.dennyburk.com/mckissic-gate-and-sbc-controversy-over-speaking-in-tongues/#comment-790 Debbie wimmers Tue, 31 Oct 2006 22:31:16 +0000 http://www.dennyburk.com/?p=13#comment-790 I always thought someone would make a Vulcan religion. :} I always thought someone would make a Vulcan religion. :}

]]> By: Jesus Creed » Weekly Meanderings http://www.dennyburk.com/mckissic-gate-and-sbc-controversy-over-speaking-in-tongues/#comment-763 Jesus Creed » Weekly Meanderings Sat, 28 Oct 2006 12:33:39 +0000 http://www.dennyburk.com/?p=13#comment-763 [...] 1. Here is the best Democrat possibility for President in 2008. His name is Barack Obama. When he declares, I’ll make a prediction. (Denny Burk, you scared?) 2. My doctor explained to me years ago that decaffeinated coffee has all the cousins and relatives of caffeine, so this report doesn’t surprise me. But I have two questions: Why do all those folks in the New England like Dunkin’ Donuts coffee so much? And what is the unique taste in Dunkin Donuts coffee? 3. I’ve said for years that the difference between Republicans and Democrats is this: What’s good for you is good for the world (Republicans) and what’s good for the world is good enough for you (Democrats). Hard times for such slogans, but Bush will be stumping about his success at the economic level. 4. OK, Jim, but when is middle-age? 36, 45, 50? I liked this post — so true. 5. Congrats to Luke and Annika for running up at Niagara Falls the other day. 6. Controversy among the Southern Baptists about tongues; tightening the rope at Southwestern. I must admit that what comes to mind for me is that different groups struggle with issues on wildly different cycles. I thought this battle was fought in the hey-day of the charismatic movement. The question: Could Paul teach there? I think of Robt Frost: when I put up a wall, I’d like to know just who I’m walling out. 7. What do we look forward to the most? Barna report. Any comments? 8. Starting locally: nice thoughts from Jamie Arpin-Ricci. 9. Susan Arnold’s post on “scars that preach.” Ruminating and searching title. 10. Who are the Red-Letter Christians? Are they purple?, that’s what I want to know. 11. The Spock Church. [...] [...] 1. Here is the best Democrat possibility for President in 2008. His name is Barack Obama. When he declares, I’ll make a prediction. (Denny Burk, you scared?) 2. My doctor explained to me years ago that decaffeinated coffee has all the cousins and relatives of caffeine, so this report doesn’t surprise me. But I have two questions: Why do all those folks in the New England like Dunkin’ Donuts coffee so much? And what is the unique taste in Dunkin Donuts coffee? 3. I’ve said for years that the difference between Republicans and Democrats is this: What’s good for you is good for the world (Republicans) and what’s good for the world is good enough for you (Democrats). Hard times for such slogans, but Bush will be stumping about his success at the economic level. 4. OK, Jim, but when is middle-age? 36, 45, 50? I liked this post — so true. 5. Congrats to Luke and Annika for running up at Niagara Falls the other day. 6. Controversy among the Southern Baptists about tongues; tightening the rope at Southwestern. I must admit that what comes to mind for me is that different groups struggle with issues on wildly different cycles. I thought this battle was fought in the hey-day of the charismatic movement. The question: Could Paul teach there? I think of Robt Frost: when I put up a wall, I’d like to know just who I’m walling out. 7. What do we look forward to the most? Barna report. Any comments? 8. Starting locally: nice thoughts from Jamie Arpin-Ricci. 9. Susan Arnold’s post on “scars that preach.” Ruminating and searching title. 10. Who are the Red-Letter Christians? Are they purple?, that’s what I want to know. 11. The Spock Church. [...]

]]> By: » Complementarian in Principle, but Not in Practice? http://www.dennyburk.com/mckissic-gate-and-sbc-controversy-over-speaking-in-tongues/#comment-751 » Complementarian in Principle, but Not in Practice? Fri, 27 Oct 2006 14:20:53 +0000 http://www.dennyburk.com/?p=13#comment-751 [...] In a previous post, I noted that Dwight McKissic’s letter to the trustees of Southwestestern Baptist Theological Seminary (SWBTS) included a call for “a more inclusive role of women in public worship.” Specifically, McKissic has in mind a role for women in “public proclamation” in the church. He cites as examples many prominent women who do just that and who are regarded widely by Southern Baptists to be exercising a faithful ministry. Among those he lists are Beth Moore, Betty Criswell, Ann Graham Lotz, and Dorothy Patterson.McKissic raises an important issue in this section of his letter, even though the trustees ultimately did not adopt the statement on women in ministry that was in the original draft. It’s an important issue because there are many who are complementarian in principle but not in practice. [...] [...] In a previous post, I noted that Dwight McKissic’s letter to the trustees of Southwestestern Baptist Theological Seminary (SWBTS) included a call for “a more inclusive role of women in public worship.” Specifically, McKissic has in mind a role for women in “public proclamation” in the church. He cites as examples many prominent women who do just that and who are regarded widely by Southern Baptists to be exercising a faithful ministry. Among those he lists are Beth Moore, Betty Criswell, Ann Graham Lotz, and Dorothy Patterson.McKissic raises an important issue in this section of his letter, even though the trustees ultimately did not adopt the statement on women in ministry that was in the original draft. It’s an important issue because there are many who are complementarian in principle but not in practice. [...]

]]> By: debbiewimmers http://www.dennyburk.com/mckissic-gate-and-sbc-controversy-over-speaking-in-tongues/#comment-725 debbiewimmers Sat, 21 Oct 2006 15:44:37 +0000 http://www.dennyburk.com/?p=13#comment-725 I agree alot with what mcKissic and Burleson are saying on this issue. What you pray in private is your business. That is between you and God. If God accepts your prayer, that's good. If he doesn't, then you may need to redirect your priorties to seeking his will. I agree alot with what mcKissic and Burleson are saying on this issue. What you pray in private is your business. That is between you and God. If God accepts your prayer, that’s good. If he doesn’t, then you may need to redirect your priorties to seeking his will.

]]> By: Chase http://www.dennyburk.com/mckissic-gate-and-sbc-controversy-over-speaking-in-tongues/#comment-721 Chase Sat, 21 Oct 2006 03:46:06 +0000 http://www.dennyburk.com/?p=13#comment-721 Is there a bigger cross to die on than this? I may be way off, but I'm just asking. Is there a bigger cross to die on than this? I may be way off, but I’m just asking.

]]> By: Andrew http://www.dennyburk.com/mckissic-gate-and-sbc-controversy-over-speaking-in-tongues/#comment-720 Andrew Fri, 20 Oct 2006 22:56:05 +0000 http://www.dennyburk.com/?p=13#comment-720 My own understanding of the tongues issue is somewhat in the air at the moment. I am not a cessationist, but I do not speak in tongues nor do I know anyone who does. My problem is with the decision by SWBTS and IMB to have an ad hoc policy that affects the way Southern Baptists work together in cooperation. If Dr. Patterson and the folks at IMB want to make a policy concerning tongues, it must first be agreed by the SBC that theirs is the consensus view. I disagree with both Hatley's and Patterson's view of tongues. SO it frustrates me that they are using their positions to "pass down an edict" as it were on the issue. Even if I agreed with them, they shouldn't not let a personal interpretation become policy without the express approval of the Convention. As Southern Baptists, we are a group of people who cooperate around a set of unifying essential doctrinal parameters. These are laid out in the Baptist Faith and Message 2000. These are the parameters around which we can find cooperation and fellowship. If some people want to refine the doctrinal criterion necessary for employment by the IMB and SWBTS, both organizations of which are funded through Southern Baptist offering money, these people should make sure the churches that pay their salaries agree with their interpretation. My own understanding of the tongues issue is somewhat in the air at the moment. I am not a cessationist, but I do not speak in tongues nor do I know anyone who does.
My problem is with the decision by SWBTS and IMB to have an ad hoc policy that affects the way Southern Baptists work together in cooperation. If Dr. Patterson and the folks at IMB want to make a policy concerning tongues, it must first be agreed by the SBC that theirs is the consensus view. I disagree with both Hatley’s and Patterson’s view of tongues. SO it frustrates me that they are using their positions to “pass down an edict” as it were on the issue. Even if I agreed with them, they shouldn’t not let a personal interpretation become policy without the express approval of the Convention.
As Southern Baptists, we are a group of people who cooperate around a set of unifying essential doctrinal parameters. These are laid out in the Baptist Faith and Message 2000. These are the parameters around which we can find cooperation and fellowship. If some people want to refine the doctrinal criterion necessary for employment by the IMB and SWBTS, both organizations of which are funded through Southern Baptist offering money, these people should make sure the churches that pay their salaries agree with their interpretation.

]]> By: Bryan L http://www.dennyburk.com/mckissic-gate-and-sbc-controversy-over-speaking-in-tongues/#comment-719 Bryan L Fri, 20 Oct 2006 18:18:58 +0000 http://www.dennyburk.com/?p=13#comment-719 Debbie, Giving and tithing aren't strictly the same thing. So to talk about giving doesn't necessarily include tithing. Also I think Jesus talked more about the kingdom of God than money and possessions. The Gospels say he went everywhere preaching the good news of the kingdom, not money and things. Those 2 things came up when he discussed their implications for those within the Kingdom. I agree that those who speak in tongues aren't more spiritual than others and would be wrong to think it. In fact being part of a Charismatic church and involved in the Charismatic circles, one of the unfortunate things I encounter that I would like to see dropped out of usage is the self description "spirit-filled" ('She's spirit-filled', 'that church is a spirit-filled church') as if to imply those who aren't charismatic aren't filled with the Sprit. That’s unbiblical. It's an unfortunate part of much of the Charismatic movement that only serves to separate and exclude and puff up. Lance, I guess liberalism is in the eyes of those who use that word against others to discredit or slander them. Conservative in America is liberal in other places in the world (and even in certain places in America). It's funny that those who consider themselves conservative today and wear it like a badge are liberals by the standards of the past. Blessings, Bryan Debbie,
Giving and tithing aren’t strictly the same thing. So to talk about giving doesn’t necessarily include tithing.

Also I think Jesus talked more about the kingdom of God than money and possessions. The Gospels say he went everywhere preaching the good news of the kingdom, not money and things.
Those 2 things came up when he discussed their implications for those within the Kingdom.

I agree that those who speak in tongues aren’t more spiritual than others and would be wrong to think it. In fact being part of a Charismatic church and involved in the Charismatic circles, one of the unfortunate things I encounter that I would like to see dropped out of usage is the self description “spirit-filled” (‘She’s spirit-filled’, ‘that church is a spirit-filled church’) as if to imply those who aren’t charismatic aren’t filled with the Sprit. That’s unbiblical. It’s an unfortunate part of much of the Charismatic movement that only serves to separate and exclude and puff up.

Lance,
I guess liberalism is in the eyes of those who use that word against others to discredit or slander them. Conservative in America is liberal in other places in the world (and even in certain places in America). It’s funny that those who consider themselves conservative today and wear it like a badge are liberals by the standards of the past.

Blessings,
Bryan

]]> By: Lance Roberts http://www.dennyburk.com/mckissic-gate-and-sbc-controversy-over-speaking-in-tongues/#comment-717 Lance Roberts Fri, 20 Oct 2006 16:54:32 +0000 http://www.dennyburk.com/?p=13#comment-717 It would be a huge step towards liberalism to allow women to teach men doctrine. I hope they stand their ground. It would be a huge step towards liberalism to allow women to teach men doctrine. I hope they stand their ground.

]]> By: Barton Ramsey http://www.dennyburk.com/mckissic-gate-and-sbc-controversy-over-speaking-in-tongues/#comment-716 Barton Ramsey Fri, 20 Oct 2006 16:54:12 +0000 http://www.dennyburk.com/?p=13#comment-716 I am still waiting on the further discussion... with much anticipation. I have a lot of mixed thoughts on the issue itself, so I think I will read more to see what my tiny mind can make of all this business. We had an interesting chat about it in the coffee shop Tuesday with Dr. Barry. Maybe we'll get you in on it next time Dr. Burk. I am still waiting on the further discussion… with much anticipation.

I have a lot of mixed thoughts on the issue itself, so I think I will read more to see what my tiny mind can make of all this business.

We had an interesting chat about it in the coffee shop Tuesday with Dr. Barry. Maybe we’ll get you in on it next time Dr. Burk.

]]> By: Debbie Wimmers http://www.dennyburk.com/mckissic-gate-and-sbc-controversy-over-speaking-in-tongues/#comment-714 Debbie Wimmers Fri, 20 Oct 2006 15:49:28 +0000 http://www.dennyburk.com/?p=13#comment-714 'If this is case, why not abandon tithing, for there is no direct commands in the New Testement to do so?' I Cor 8-9 talk about giving. Hebrews 7 talks about giving. Jesus talked more about money and possessions more than anything else. There are some that shy away from tongues because some could be demonic instead of by the Holy Spirit. jesus said Do not blaspheme the Holy Spirit. I wonder if that means don't deny the gifts of the spirit like tongues. Some that speak in tongues think they are more spiritual than non-speakers. this, of course, is not true. ‘If this is case, why not abandon tithing, for there is no direct commands in the New Testement to do so?’

I Cor 8-9 talk about giving. Hebrews 7 talks about giving.
Jesus talked more about money and possessions more than anything else.

There are some that shy away from tongues because some could be demonic instead of by the Holy Spirit. jesus said Do not blaspheme the Holy Spirit. I wonder if that means don’t deny the gifts of the spirit like tongues.
Some that speak in tongues think they are more spiritual than non-speakers. this, of course, is not true.

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