If not, I have thought of an ideal resolution to this dispute: invite John Loftus to this blog (or we could go to his) to once and for all settle the question of whether or not “John Loftus admits that there is no reason for the atheist to be good.”

Matthew, thank you for your kind words.

I’ve appreciated this discussion, but Matthew again hit the nail on the head: I am immersed in young students being trained in the argumentative arts of point-counterpoint apologetics. While previous discussions on Dr. Burk’s blog have been very healthy for the development of my faith, this has been quite destructive and hurtful, and I feel convicted to abstain from engaging further.

I appreciate the firm but loving way that Darius and Nathan have approached their perspectives of how I’ve interpreted the gospel; obviously your concern is not in being right, but in glorifying the Lord and exhorting a sister in Christ. I’m definitely prayerfully considering what you’ve said. I may or may not post on future blog posts of Dr. Burk’s, but I’m most likely going to err on the side of “may not.”

Not at my church, but perhaps some. It’s no different than hetero lust… it doesn’t necessarily go away, but you can master it through the Spirit.

Darius, I wonder if many people in church would say “that’s great!” to this – but if one of those men then said “even so, I still am tempted with same-sex attraction” I wonder if those same people might get that scowl that says “hmm, you aren’t one of us.”

I read one piece where a guy said that when most guys walk into a Bible study, they might be tempted to think lustful thoughts about the wives in the group. The difference with him was that he might be tempted to think about the husbands in addition to the wives, effectively doubling the number of potential lustful targets for temptation for him.

I think sometimes people feel pressured to be “healed” such that all those feelings and attractions go away. Not sure that is how it works.

Personally, I wish that ex-preacher and DennyReader and others would follow the rules of using their first and last names as they post. Back when Denny asked people to start doing that, it made an immediate improvement in the general tone of the discussion, in my opinion.

I could be completely wrong on this, but I have a mental image of many of the commenters here as young students, being trained in the argumentative arts of point-counterpoint apologetics. There can be value to this, but those who use these methods must understand that shouting down your opponent may win an argument (or just end it) but it doesn’t win the person and it doesn’t aid you in learning anything from them. Well, you guys don’t need me to preach to you.

Well, just one more comment to this. It has been said that today many are not asking “Can you out-argue me?” but rather “Do I want to be like you?” One of the best “arguments” we can offer the world is to live out the fruit of the Spirit, including the “softer” things like respect and gentleness. This leads to being a person that others want to be like and so gains a hearing. OK, for real, I’ll stop preaching

Going back to something you said: “but one that can be dealt with and overcome. Homosexuality does not seem to fall into the same field.”

What about all of those homosexuals that have overcome their urges, just like all of those men who every day overcome their urges to be unfaithful to their wives? I know men who have fought same sex interests and are living solid Christian lives with wives and families. It seems like you want to treat homosexuality as special when in fact it should be treated like any other sin… something to fight with the Gospel and your dying breath.

DennyReader: “Where do you come up with this stuff? Have you ever heard of GLBT, do you know what the “G” in that acronym stands for?”

The objection was at the use of gay as a noun. To call someone “a gay” or to say something like “gays can’t breed” is considered, generally, prejudiced.

Additionally: “Why do people from your side feel the need to mock others and define what is appropriate discourse.”

I thought we were on the same side, as believers in Christ. But it would seem that the majority of people who are commenting here are questioning my salvation, and I’m in no way required to defend that. However, I think that if you were to take the time to reread my previous comments, you would see that I have approached everything with as much gentleness as possible. It is that gentleness, in fact, that motivated me to ask that you tone down your harsh language. There was no mocking intended with what I said, but a direct request with no hint of sarcasm or disdain. Again, I apologize if I came across as haughty.

I am appalled at the vitriol that is coming from supposed believers towards dissenters. I don’t suppose ex-preacher will have any interest in becoming an ex-ex-preacher when this is how he sees Christians behaving.