It is the Truth of tomorrow and the Person that was and is God that calls us, transforms us, and embraces us while we struggle with the “rights and wrongs” of these 24 hour days in this life. I am glad that this is not all we have or all that we will come to know of God and His Truth.

I wish us all peace and loads of grace as we each pursue our “calling” and celebrate the truth of Easter as only the brothers/sisters of Jesus can really know it.

Peace

Also: who, may I ask, is suggesting that Rick Warren is FOR gay marriage. To my knowledge, this has not been suggested by anyone (maybe I missed a news blurb about this, I admit the possibility).

Prop 8 was and is a huge deal in the state of California, as well as the rest of the country. When he said that “he never put out a statement”, was that really the truth or are we going to spend all day splitting hairs about whether a video delivered to his church constitutes a statement or not? These are the kinds of things that do grave harm to a person’s credibility.

I think 99 out of 100 people who saw this interview read the body language and heard his words and understood what was going on here. Capitulation. I hope the 99 are wrong, including myself. Truly do.

I listened to his interview and I read the transcript he did not say that he supports same sex marriage……he did not allude to being in support of same sex marriage….he did not say he condoned same sex marriage…..

he did say he has gay colleagues and friends…now that he did unequivocally admit….and he did say that he apologized to them for how he was misrepresented in equating something about same sex marriage and pedophilia…..BUT that was it….

And at the end of the day it seems that you and I are NOT going to agree on this…AND we are not going to agree that I do think that you ARE saying that he was not “anti-gay” enough when it comes to his issue of Prop 8 and how he somehow didn’t do enough or say enough or you want to even say he changed his recanted his beliefs on marriage being one woman and one man —–no where in this interview is that said ….. no where…..

He chose to talk about his work and on this Easter weeekend I would think that we all would be willing to at least acknowledge EVEN IF WE DISAGREE with the WORDS HE DID OR DID NOT USE ON THIS ONE PROGRAM that the restoration that his sacrifice in the name of Jesus has brought to the hundreds of orphans and families his foundation has impacted speaks to his commitment to the gospel, the cross and His God.

Again we are going to disagree

Again, if you watch the interviews in context, you can understand why many in the gay community are accusing Pastor Warren of speaking out of both sides of his mouth. Don’t look for hidden messages here- I am saying “you know, they have a good point”.

And now this accusation that Christian conservatives are upset that Rick Warren “isn’t anti-gay enough” is just plain unfair of you. That is a red herring argument, plain and simple. What is at issue here is not pro-gay or anti-gay – this is about the definition of marriage; it is about speaking in very different ways to different sets of people.

We should expect that the world would accuse Christians of being anti-gay upon the basis of opposition to same sex marriage, but to hear this from fellow believers? Lynn, that really makes me sad.

In the video interview with Larry King Rick says and I quote:

“There were some things said that — you know, everybody should have 10 percent grace when they say public statements. And I was asked a question that made it sound like I equated gay marriage with pedophilia or incest, which I absolutely do not believe. And I actually announced that.”

My guess is and it is only a guess, but I would think if that was actually said about him and he had friends/colleagues/associates that are gay he would have clarified with them that this was not his belief, if in fact it is not. Don’t you think? I know if it were me, I would have.

He never apologized for his position on Prop 8, he just said that he didn’t attend meetings, rallies, etc during the time leading up to or following the vote. He said that when asked by members of his congregation what he thought, he gave his answer in a letter and from the pulpit. And he said that his position had not changed on the definition of marriage. So….

Now to move beyond his words, we have to intimate that we know his thinking or understand his heart….clearly that would be unfounded for any man (or woman) to be able to make that claim. So we continue to make inferences and honestly that IS the problem with things like this. This “critique” does nothing any different than those who take the opposite view of Prop 8 and are condemning Rick for really being ALL the things that you say he is NOT anymore….. THAT I would think would give us all pause to stop and renegotiate our tactics.

“They” say he is still a just as anti-gay as ever and nothing has changed and they ridicule him for that….you guys are saying he’s not anti-gay ENOUGH and ridicule him for that….hmm…??

AND in the mean time Rick seems to follow Paul’s thoughts about caring only about the judgment of One and goes on with his focus in Ruwanda and continue the work of trying to bring the restoration and reconciliation of the gospel to a people that are dying with AIDS and living with the aftermath of the havoc this disease brings to those that survive. WHILE some “conservatives” among us rail at him for his stand or lack there of on a referendum in CA that passed!

I find all this curious and very saddening. I can’t believe that our Father/ Brother /Comforter feels any differently. But then I guess we will disagree on that too.

I must say one more thing. I have been a big fan of Rick Warren’s. I have defended him when others have attacked him in the past. But he has done tremendous damage to HIMSELF and to his credibility. Whether you are a secular gay friend of Rick’s (which we should have no problem with at all – unless Rick fails to uphold a Biblical standard in the process) or whether you are a conservative Christian, you feel that you have been manipulated.

I’d really like to know what Rick apologized to his friends in the gay community about. He left an implication that he apologized for supporting Prop 8. If he apologized to them, does he not also owe an apology to his own congregation for telling them to vote for Prop 8?

IF one disagrees with HOW he said that, well then we would be obligated by Matthew 18 to talk directly to HIM and not ABOUT him

The conservative Christian community has a horrible reputation for not only the way we “treat” others that disagree with us, but we also have a very similar reputation for how we “treat” each other….feeding that perception with this kind of un-founded rhetoric about HOW Rick or any other brother steps to the line of “recanting” when that is CLEARLY NOT what he did …..is deceptive, malicious and unfounded

In Rick’s own words he stated that he had sent a letter to his congregants about his resolve on marriage and how that resolve had not changed. Why did more need to be said?

And given that these WERE his words the “waffling” “sidestepping” “recanting” “double-speak” accusations are unfounded.

THEN when we “critique” others without them knowing we are critiquing them (when it is a brother in Christ) what are we hoping to accomplish? It does let others know how we feel differently, but couldn’t we do that without tainting the reputation, perception of integrity, and commitment of one that has worked very hard to further the gospel we say we are ALL committed to?

People of the religious establishment (inside and outside of the early church) disagreed with how Paul said things too AND what he did. Remember what he said? The only person’s judgement he cared about was his Father’s, the rest were of no value to him.

AGAIN and I feel like I am beating this drum until we are all sick of hearing it….BUT if we want to talk about remaining true to our convictions, then let’s do it….but why is it condoned to put forth that message by INSULTING and RIDICULING someone else….(and please don’t say that is not what was done, because to accuse him of even coming close to “recanting” is exactly that. This is not a treatise on semantics nor choice of words)

Say what we want to say, LEAVE RICK’S NAME OUT OF IT! He clearly stated in the interview that his definition of marriage had not changed. Yet it is inferred that he came dangerously close to “recanting”—which is just not true.

Again, we as Christians are accountable for what we say and how we say it. But we are not to be so lacking in discernment that we just brush these things aside and pretend nothing happened.

Something happened. It happened in front of millions of people. It needs to be addressed and scrutinized, not papered over. The gay community is all over this, ridiculing Christians everywhere because of the way Rick Warren addresses his audiences in such a political manner and dodges tough questions – they know this just doesn’t pass the smell test. We ought not pretend that it does.

http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=94254

Denny, do you not have a response for Warren?

Wolves in sheep’s clothing.

Tickling the itching ears.

Serving God and preaching His Word?

Christians afraid to offend.