When a person’s worth is rooted in their walk with Christ, they don’t need to force others down into an inadequate or inferior position in order to be “taller”. That represents a warped idea of what qualifies one for leadership, for one thing. It sounds like this man is an insecure controller – sadly, spiritual and emotional ill health is no respecter of persons and can be found in the pew or the pulpit. I think its noteworthy that you showed him respect by communicating privately, which is what the bible tells us to do before it ever gets to the public level. Too bad he failed to obey the scripture he wss twisting to justify his treatment of you.

The final step of public rebuke and excommuiication is not for those who show that they cannot be reasoned with, are unteachable and, by virture of a refusal to honor God’s word and persistence to continue in willful sin, show that they have no serious commitment to God or his word. If conducted in the right spirit, this is something that is approached with grief and mercy, never rushed to with eager pharisaical self righteousness. It is intended to bring about repentance and restoration, not to destroy all possiblity of fellowship ever again.

General thoughts on the church

That being said, I beleive the loosey goosey individualistic form of godliness we have today is due in part to the fact that we pick and choose what scriptures we are going to obey. The church is weakened and lacking in authority and power because we don’t obey God’s word; we often act is if that is optional, and worse we judge God’s word by the world’s point of view instead of the other way around. Where is our fear of God? This is evidence that often the church is really the kingdom of self and of ego, otherwise we would be deeply concerned about offending God by mishandling somemone he died for, or misrepresenting his word and besmirching his reputation amongst unbelievers.

There is an expectation, I think that discpline be carried out by elders who are mature in God’s word and in love, which is why there sre such stringent qualifciations for leaders. Again, lack of respect for God’s word may mean that a man is chosen because he is not a threat to the pastor or because he is a yes man, not because his walk is an inspiration to all and an example of godliness, or because he can be trusted to speak the truth in love without giving in to spiritual intimidation. Bottom line, its still an essential safegaurd to have church dsicpline.

The expected outcome for a faithful man when giving commitment without getting the same in return is nothing at best and paying the cost at worst.

There is an upside to commitment when it flows in both directions.

I’m a little late on this one but a quick comment to your statement, “Like the “christian” who steals at work or cheats on his wife. There is no discipline so the world accepts these people as the generic, stereotype….A Hypocrite.”

That does not necessarily reflect my experience. For every seemingly active member in the church that I have known that has lived in sexual sin such as you describe, I have known at least ten that are angry or rude or stab others in the back. At the secular jobs I have had, the Christians who give us all a bad name are the latter crowd, not the former that you describe. But both sets of sins, namely, the moral sins and the anger sins, both represent fruit of the flesh and sins that need to be removed (Gal 5, Col 3).

Some churches seem interested in quickly disciplining someone who has fallen into moral failure and thus create a climate where the members are afraid to be honest about any struggles in that area. Yet, the same churches sometimes allow various other sins to prosper. For example, the stereotypical grumpy old church lady that criticizes and gossips and snaps at the kids, etc. etc. I have known such people to create damage for years yet never be in danger of church discipline. This represents a double standard and inconsistent discipline.

I sent my response to his personal email so that no one else would need to see it, but he brought it to church that Sunday and preached against it point by point. This had to do with WHO to vote for. He then asked me if I was going to apologize for writing it, but I told him that I didn’t see that I had sinned in doing so. He told me that if my husband had written it, it would have been fine, but since I was a woman, he stated, “You’ll pay for this,” and he excommunicated me.

Bryan says that excommunication means nothing and that you can just go down the street to the next church. Not always so. I have attempted to find a church that will take me for the last 3 years now and have been totally unsuccessful. If you are excommunicated by a strong-armed, powerful bully, there’s not much you can do. Church after church after church has said they will stand up to Doug Phillips, but when it comes right down to it, all the Reformed elders in this mega-city of 1 ½ million cower in fear of man.

Regular atteding visitors are largely included in all the benefits of church membership. Members become immediately vulnerable to being falsely accused and threatened with punitive discipline. One solution: pray for your elders and those in authority over you so that those under them may live quiet and peaceable lives in all godliness and honesty (1 Timothy 2)

As practiced, USA churches often favor the visitor over the member. The visitor gets special parking in some cases and more attention and care in many cases. As a member, there are often no benefits available that are not available to the long-term visitor or adherent. Although the Scriptures command that we love especially those of the household of faith, in practice, it’s often the visitor that gets more love.

False prophets, false teachers, hypocrites, and other undesirables have led churches. Paul, Silas, Luke, Acquilla, Priscilla, and others have been itinerant Christians. The over-formalization of church membership can restrict mobility and opportunities for service.

Church discipline is necessary but injustices have also taken place. In some cases, expediency has prevailed over biblical principles.

Your story is truly amazing. I’m finding it hard to believe that a vote for Bush would lead to excommunication though.

Are you suggesting that your pastor informed/instructed his church members how to vote? And for disobedience to his mandate you were disciplined?

Do I understand you correctly???

For you to say that, you would have to discredit every argument Dever makes here under “The Meaning of Membership”.

You cannot make such a blanket statement and expect it to stand on an argument from silence.

j razz