one of my favorite quotes, although I don’t know who said it is this…

“Let me write a nation’s songs, and I don’t care who writes it’s laws.”

It’s a very true quote, and it gets to the heart of what I am saying. Remember that the art that is memorable (even Piss Christ) is on the cutting edge and telling of things to come. That’s why I’m hardly shocked that Pollock’s art in the 40′s and 50′s led to “the journey is more important than the destination” mindset of the 60′s, or that Andy Warhol’s silkscreens in the late 60′s led to the pre-fab, plastic, corporate run 80′s and 90′s.

So, when art sucks, we’re not that far off from the rest of the culture following suit.

Insofar as having or not having to like fine art, sure, you’re right, that’s on you. But I will say that one of the major failings of the uh-mur-cun schools, both public and private is their unwillingness to educate their students about that art. In school (and I went to a fairly well rated school, mind you), I never had to read Moby Dick, Walden, anything by Hemmingway or Ayn Rand or any of the American classics. I was told that jazz was a dead artform, and I was told that composers like Messiaen and Stockhausen destroyed classical music and was laughed at when I asked about Frank Zappa.

It’s that kind of ignorance and apathy towards the arts that leads to a blind subjectiveness to the arts that leads to a subjectiveness towards the whole of a culture.

In other words, if you can understand the nooks and crannies of that poem that you hate, Quioxte, then fine, hate it all you want. But you know that technically, it’s a good poem. More power to you (and to us all).

But when people blindly write off art and say it does nothing for them, then really, they’re writing off so much more, and that’s the scary part.

I know that my daughter, as she comes of age, won’t like everything that I like. And she might just hate it simply because I like it. That’s part of being a kid. But I guarantee you that she’ll know and understand the arts, and therefore the culture that gave birth to that art far better than any of her friends. And it WILL be to her benefit.

And knowing what makes a good song and what makes a bad song, I am pretty sure that she’ll hate the majority of CCM artists even more than I do.

Hogwash. (How’s that for an educated, articulate rebuttal?)

Perhaps a decline in the arts INDICATES a decline in culture, but when it comes to dictating, I’d wager that you’ve got it backwards. A decline in *culture* DICTATES a decline in the *arts*.

As a side note, I think one point JNG was trying to make (among many that seem to go misunderstood), is that while we can recognize certain standards as prequisites for “art,” that doesn’t mean we (as individuals) have to LIKE said art.

For example, I can readily admit the craft and skill of many fine poets, and not care enough about their particular poems to read them in my spare time. Sure, I can recognize merit based on established literary form, but darn it! I JUST DON’T LIKE THE POEM, PEOPLE!

The same can be said for visual arts, musical arts, theatre, etc. etc. And THAT is what (I believe) JNG was trying to say about art being SUBJECTIVE.

And as for all the snobs of any sort out there, get over yourselves. What is a SNOB.? Someone no one befriends, sweetheart!

liberal posts do not equal spam posts, Denny

And yes, a decline in the arts dictates a decline in culture. And a willingness to let it decline by being so willing to call art a subjective thing is where it all starts. All of the sudden, artists no longer need to be schooled, and no longer need to learn their artform by listening to the greats and mimicing before finding their own voice. Originality now becomes virtually an impossibility unless one plays the shock value card, and voila: suddenly Marilyn Manson and people painting pictures of murderers suddenly get some traction.

It’s no shock to me that Marilyn Manson never caught on in Europe, where art is appreciated, taught and instilled in the youth of that continent, from Spain to Russia and all points in between.

But here, he was a beacon of passion, both for the kids that didn’t know any better and the parents that did nothing to stop just such an artist from coming to the fore in the first place.

So, to say that art is subjective is to say that culture is subjective. And to say that is to really throw out any reasonable arguments for a more Christian worldview in America.

Not saying that our views on art dictate our views on culture, but they do reflect them.

In other words, if you make no attempt to engage in the “higher arts”, you have no business complaining when your culture crumbles around you.

If you don’t like it, do something about it. But that something ain’t shrugging your shoulders. Not by a long shot.

http://www.city-journal.org/html/13_3_oh_to_be.html

http://www.city-journal.org/html/8_1_urbanities-trash.html

I understand what you are saying about the technical side of things. Obviously your taste as a musician is going to be more refined to a certain expectation. However, that does not mean that what you deem below your level of expectation is bad. It also does not mean that someone who likes it has bad taste. They might, but it is not certain. You see it gets back to opinions which are subjective.

Bryan, lets not play that game. Obviously there is a basis from which to begin and a somewhat reasonable amount of experience is neccessary. We are all adults here (I think) and have some basis for our knowledge and or opinions. I think I covered the degree of education portion above with Paul.

I’m sorry that I offended. If I’m not mistaken, there was another post of yours that got axed, and there was much to discuss there.

But, anyway, I have to disagree, mostly, with your idea that the idea of an objective standard in the arts is erroneous, and frankly, I think it’s dangerous to our culture as a whole.

Darius is right, Piss Christ is the end result of a culture who applies laissez faire values to its art. The artist tried explaining it away in a number of different ways, but at the end of the day, it’s a crucifix placed in a bottle of urine, it takes no talent and it shouldn’t be considered art by anyone. It’s an insult to the world of visual art.

It’s already happened in the visual art world, it’s happening in the aural art world, and it’s just a matter of time until it happens to the printed word.

All because art is subjective. Be careful what you wish for, JNG.