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	<title>Comments on: Amend ETS: A Successful Effort</title>
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	<link>http://www.dennyburk.com/amend-ets-a-successful-effort/</link>
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		<title>By: Don Lowe</title>
		<link>http://www.dennyburk.com/amend-ets-a-successful-effort/comment-page-1/#comment-47236</link>
		<dc:creator>Don Lowe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Nov 2008 22:21:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dennyburk.com/?p=2818#comment-47236</guid>
		<description>Denny,

Now I&#039;m not sure who to believe.  The ETS web site says nothing about withdrawal and says that the EC recommended postponement and proposed a special session to discuss the issue.  You&#039;re saying that they recommended withdrawal and no discussion.

It also says that the proponents of the amendment determined not to delay.  But you&#039;re saying that you were willing to hold it back for another year.

http://www.etsjets.org/?q=website_constitution_amendment_announcement

So which is it?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Denny,</p>
<p>Now I&#8217;m not sure who to believe.  The ETS web site says nothing about withdrawal and says that the EC recommended postponement and proposed a special session to discuss the issue.  You&#8217;re saying that they recommended withdrawal and no discussion.</p>
<p>It also says that the proponents of the amendment determined not to delay.  But you&#8217;re saying that you were willing to hold it back for another year.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.etsjets.org/?q=website_constitution_amendment_announcement" rel="nofollow">http://www.etsjets.org/?q=website_constitution_amendment_announcement</a></p>
<p>So which is it?</p>
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		<title>By: Denny Burk</title>
		<link>http://www.dennyburk.com/amend-ets-a-successful-effort/comment-page-1/#comment-47228</link>
		<dc:creator>Denny Burk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Nov 2008 06:08:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dennyburk.com/?p=2818#comment-47228</guid>
		<description>Don,

Both Ray and I favored more discussion. But we were asked by the EC to withdraw our proposal, not discuss it. If they had asked us to discuss, we might have held it back for another year.

Anyway, the discussion we had at this last meeting was a good one, I think. I am hoping that this is just the beginning of an effort to amend.

Thanks,
Denny</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Don,</p>
<p>Both Ray and I favored more discussion. But we were asked by the EC to withdraw our proposal, not discuss it. If they had asked us to discuss, we might have held it back for another year.</p>
<p>Anyway, the discussion we had at this last meeting was a good one, I think. I am hoping that this is just the beginning of an effort to amend.</p>
<p>Thanks,<br />
Denny</p>
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		<title>By: Don Lowe</title>
		<link>http://www.dennyburk.com/amend-ets-a-successful-effort/comment-page-1/#comment-47224</link>
		<dc:creator>Don Lowe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Nov 2008 21:13:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dennyburk.com/?p=2818#comment-47224</guid>
		<description>Denny, I think what the vote shows, and that some who spoke in favor of an amendment voting against it, is that there was not enough discussion on the topic.  Clearly those people should have been consulted more before the proposal was finalized.

I can&#039;t help but think that the Executive Committee was wise in their recommendation for more discussion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Denny, I think what the vote shows, and that some who spoke in favor of an amendment voting against it, is that there was not enough discussion on the topic.  Clearly those people should have been consulted more before the proposal was finalized.</p>
<p>I can&#8217;t help but think that the Executive Committee was wise in their recommendation for more discussion.</p>
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		<title>By: Bradley</title>
		<link>http://www.dennyburk.com/amend-ets-a-successful-effort/comment-page-1/#comment-47223</link>
		<dc:creator>Bradley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Nov 2008 18:59:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dennyburk.com/?p=2818#comment-47223</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the response Denny.  That doesn&#039;t surprise me that so many evangelicals who believe the Bible is inerrant also have trouble with Sola Fide.   

What about my other question?  I&#039;m still trying to understand this.  

It would seem to me that a current member who believed in the Trinity and Inerrancy but not sola fide, once they were forced to sign an abstract which contained sola fide, would be forced to effectively drop out of the Society (or sign in bad conscience).  But you say only the Trinity and Inerrancy will call membership into question.  I&#039;m not sure I understand that part of your post.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the response Denny.  That doesn&#8217;t surprise me that so many evangelicals who believe the Bible is inerrant also have trouble with Sola Fide.   </p>
<p>What about my other question?  I&#8217;m still trying to understand this.  </p>
<p>It would seem to me that a current member who believed in the Trinity and Inerrancy but not sola fide, once they were forced to sign an abstract which contained sola fide, would be forced to effectively drop out of the Society (or sign in bad conscience).  But you say only the Trinity and Inerrancy will call membership into question.  I&#8217;m not sure I understand that part of your post.</p>
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		<title>By: Denny Burk</title>
		<link>http://www.dennyburk.com/amend-ets-a-successful-effort/comment-page-1/#comment-47219</link>
		<dc:creator>Denny Burk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Nov 2008 03:44:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dennyburk.com/?p=2818#comment-47219</guid>
		<description>Touche, Dr. Beckwith!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Touche, Dr. Beckwith!</p>
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		<title>By: Francis Beckwith</title>
		<link>http://www.dennyburk.com/amend-ets-a-successful-effort/comment-page-1/#comment-47216</link>
		<dc:creator>Francis Beckwith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Nov 2008 19:42:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dennyburk.com/?p=2818#comment-47216</guid>
		<description>Having brought Star Trek into the fray, it is with great trepidation that I offer Monty Python&#039;s black knight as a possible metaphor for the success of the amendment: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kNKSzmM44gE&amp;feature=related

:-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Having brought Star Trek into the fray, it is with great trepidation that I offer Monty Python&#8217;s black knight as a possible metaphor for the success of the amendment: <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kNKSzmM44gE&amp;feature=related" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kNKSzmM44gE&amp;feature=related</a></p>
<p> <img src='http://www.dennyburk.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Russ Ware</title>
		<link>http://www.dennyburk.com/amend-ets-a-successful-effort/comment-page-1/#comment-47212</link>
		<dc:creator>Russ Ware</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Nov 2008 14:52:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dennyburk.com/?p=2818#comment-47212</guid>
		<description>Denny...

Welcome back! 

It&#039;s been hard to figure out how to constructively comment on this &#039;Successful Effort&#039; post. Have you considered any measure of circumspection and humility in this matter. Any consideration of the possibility that actually you &lt;i&gt;lost and should rethink your agenda?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Denny&#8230;</p>
<p>Welcome back! </p>
<p>It&#8217;s been hard to figure out how to constructively comment on this &#8216;Successful Effort&#8217; post. Have you considered any measure of circumspection and humility in this matter. Any consideration of the possibility that actually you <i>lost and should rethink your agenda?</i></p>
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		<title>By: Denny Burk</title>
		<link>http://www.dennyburk.com/amend-ets-a-successful-effort/comment-page-1/#comment-47205</link>
		<dc:creator>Denny Burk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Nov 2008 04:48:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dennyburk.com/?p=2818#comment-47205</guid>
		<description>Bradley,

In the debate, several members indicated that they would not be able to sign the amended doctrinal basis. The amendment had some affirmations that were troubling to people: justification, imputation, and original sin. I think a more generic statement might have gotten more support. For many, this one was just too specific on some points.

Thanks,
Denny</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bradley,</p>
<p>In the debate, several members indicated that they would not be able to sign the amended doctrinal basis. The amendment had some affirmations that were troubling to people: justification, imputation, and original sin. I think a more generic statement might have gotten more support. For many, this one was just too specific on some points.</p>
<p>Thanks,<br />
Denny</p>
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		<title>By: Bradley Cochran</title>
		<link>http://www.dennyburk.com/amend-ets-a-successful-effort/comment-page-1/#comment-47200</link>
		<dc:creator>Bradley Cochran</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Nov 2008 02:11:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dennyburk.com/?p=2818#comment-47200</guid>
		<description>... ostracized ... (sorry, sp)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8230; ostracized &#8230; (sorry, sp)</p>
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		<title>By: Bradley Cochran</title>
		<link>http://www.dennyburk.com/amend-ets-a-successful-effort/comment-page-1/#comment-47199</link>
		<dc:creator>Bradley Cochran</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Nov 2008 02:09:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dennyburk.com/?p=2818#comment-47199</guid>
		<description>Also ... in your &quot;doctrinal abstract,&quot; you say that someone would only be ostricised if they didn&#039;t believe in the inerrancy or the Trinity.  But if an evangelical did not believe in, say, sola fide (at least the way its articulated in the doctrinal statement you proposed), but they still believed in inerrancy and the Trinity, how could their membership NOT be effectually terminated if they are forced to sign the abstract every year?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Also &#8230; in your &#8220;doctrinal abstract,&#8221; you say that someone would only be ostricised if they didn&#8217;t believe in the inerrancy or the Trinity.  But if an evangelical did not believe in, say, sola fide (at least the way its articulated in the doctrinal statement you proposed), but they still believed in inerrancy and the Trinity, how could their membership NOT be effectually terminated if they are forced to sign the abstract every year?</p>
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