Comments on: A Second Tornado in Minneapolis http://www.dennyburk.com/a-second-tornado-in-minneapolis/ Mon, 06 Sep 2010 18:59:17 -0400 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.6 hourly 1 By: Matthew Staton http://www.dennyburk.com/a-second-tornado-in-minneapolis/#comment-51764 Matthew Staton Tue, 25 Aug 2009 20:58:15 +0000 http://www.dennyburk.com/?p=5069#comment-51764 Denny my comment disappeared. If you get a chance to approve it, that would be great. The comment links to 3 sites with data and commentary about the weather that day. Based on those pages I believe the weather was unique, not normal. Denny my comment disappeared. If you get a chance to approve it, that would be great.

The comment links to 3 sites with data and commentary about the weather that day. Based on those pages I believe the weather was unique, not normal.

]]> By: Derek Taylor http://www.dennyburk.com/a-second-tornado-in-minneapolis/#comment-51763 Derek Taylor Tue, 25 Aug 2009 20:50:36 +0000 http://www.dennyburk.com/?p=5069#comment-51763 By the way, I happened to watch all of the debate at the ELCA last Friday. One of the things that piqued my interest was that some of the delegates did express genuine puzzlement as to God's will. Obviously they didn't think the Scriptures provided sufficient guidance. Make of that what you will. I find it fully plausible that a number of people were praying for guidance right up to the time of the voting. By the way, I happened to watch all of the debate at the ELCA last Friday. One of the things that piqued my interest was that some of the delegates did express genuine puzzlement as to God’s will. Obviously they didn’t think the Scriptures provided sufficient guidance. Make of that what you will. I find it fully plausible that a number of people were praying for guidance right up to the time of the voting.

]]> By: Derek Taylor http://www.dennyburk.com/a-second-tornado-in-minneapolis/#comment-51762 Derek Taylor Tue, 25 Aug 2009 20:38:56 +0000 http://www.dennyburk.com/?p=5069#comment-51762 Adam, You live in MN, so I take your word for it. I was basing what I said not on a blog entry, but on this specific local news report, where the two buildings noted were the Convention Center and the church: http://wcco.com/weathernewsstories/tornado.twin.cities.2.1135360.html I still don't think this makes a material difference. The timing and circumstances have to be a remarkable "coincidence", happening with the backdrop of this meeting that would have historic impact on the ELCA. RE: signs - of course, you're right in the sense that "an evil generation asks for a sign", especially when people ask for a sign when God has been so unambiguous in His word. Maybe God's mercy is so great that He decided to give someone(s) a sign. I don't presume to know for certain and neither did John Piper. But if He did, it would certainly demonstrate his power, authority and patience. And either way, it can be taken as an affirmation of truths we already know from Scripture and serve as a tangible reminder that He *may* indulge our rebellion (and make no mistake, this was a dramatic and arrogant step of disobedience) for a season, but a day is coming in which no more warnings will be issued. Adam,
You live in MN, so I take your word for it. I was basing what I said not on a blog entry, but on this specific local news report, where the two buildings noted were the Convention Center and the church:
http://wcco.com/weathernewsstories/tornado.twin.cities.2.1135360.html

I still don’t think this makes a material difference. The timing and circumstances have to be a remarkable “coincidence”, happening with the backdrop of this meeting that would have historic impact on the ELCA.

RE: signs – of course, you’re right in the sense that “an evil generation asks for a sign”, especially when people ask for a sign when God has been so unambiguous in His word. Maybe God’s mercy is so great that He decided to give someone(s) a sign. I don’t presume to know for certain and neither did John Piper. But if He did, it would certainly demonstrate his power, authority and patience. And either way, it can be taken as an affirmation of truths we already know from Scripture and serve as a tangible reminder that He *may* indulge our rebellion (and make no mistake, this was a dramatic and arrogant step of disobedience) for a season, but a day is coming in which no more warnings will be issued.

]]> By: Adam Omelianchuk http://www.dennyburk.com/a-second-tornado-in-minneapolis/#comment-51761 Adam Omelianchuk Tue, 25 Aug 2009 19:54:07 +0000 http://www.dennyburk.com/?p=5069#comment-51761 Here is a news story that covers where most the main damaged occured. http://www.myfoxtwincities.com/dpp/news/Tornado_Downtown_Minneapolis_Aug_19_2009# Here is a news story that covers where most the main damaged occured.

http://www.myfoxtwincities.com/dpp/news/Tornado_Downtown_Minneapolis_Aug_19_2009#

]]> By: Adam Omelianchuk http://www.dennyburk.com/a-second-tornado-in-minneapolis/#comment-51759 Adam Omelianchuk Tue, 25 Aug 2009 19:36:26 +0000 http://www.dennyburk.com/?p=5069#comment-51759 Derek, you don't live here, and your fact gathering is based off of blog posts and websites. I'm sorry, but your claims to the facts just aren't true. A lot of buildings and houses got damaged. I work at a Christian drug rehab center here in the neighborhood that got hit. We had to run to the basement just like the Lutherans did. But somehow THEY are the ones that need to take heed and repent and not US. Why is that? I thought, according to Piper, that all calamities are calls to repentance to everyone? That is the point of his qualifications is it not? You can talk about "precision" all you like, but you really haven't taken into account all of the data. The same factors that contributed to the "precision" you talk about with regard to the ELCA also were in play that creamed a small school miles away from the Metro area. Since I live here and saw the damage done to a large part of the city, I don't think it was very precise at all. And I think you should know better that "praying for signs" is not how you seek guidance from God. You read and apply his word in obedience and faith. Derek, you don’t live here, and your fact gathering is based off of blog posts and websites. I’m sorry, but your claims to the facts just aren’t true. A lot of buildings and houses got damaged. I work at a Christian drug rehab center here in the neighborhood that got hit. We had to run to the basement just like the Lutherans did. But somehow THEY are the ones that need to take heed and repent and not US. Why is that? I thought, according to Piper, that all calamities are calls to repentance to everyone? That is the point of his qualifications is it not?

You can talk about “precision” all you like, but you really haven’t taken into account all of the data. The same factors that contributed to the “precision” you talk about with regard to the ELCA also were in play that creamed a small school miles away from the Metro area. Since I live here and saw the damage done to a large part of the city, I don’t think it was very precise at all.

And I think you should know better that “praying for signs” is not how you seek guidance from God. You read and apply his word in obedience and faith.

]]> By: Steve Hayes http://www.dennyburk.com/a-second-tornado-in-minneapolis/#comment-51756 Steve Hayes Tue, 25 Aug 2009 16:30:02 +0000 http://www.dennyburk.com/?p=5069#comment-51756 I got tired of reading all of these responses, but I just had to chime in on this one. I just think it's odd that every time someone makes the claim that calamity is God's way of dealing with sin, they do so when God is dealing with someone else's sin. They say things like, "Hurricane Katrina hit New Orleans because of Bourbon St. This is God's way of cleaning that city up." Or, "AIDS is God's way of judging the sins of homosexuals." But they never seem to say, "It's clear to me that lightening struck my house because God is trying to rid me of my porn addiction." Or "I just got into a car wreck because I am very judgmental, and God wants to cure me of that sin." Why does God only use calamity to point out the sins of "them", and not the sins of "us"? Now, I know Piper said God used his cancer to point out his own sin, but that's very different than me going into Piper's hospital room during chemotherapy and saying, "Listen, John, I think this cancer is God's judgment upon you." If God is using this calamity to show this denomination their sin, why don't we trust Him to make that clear? I just can't understand Piper's lack of tact or basic wisdom. Why would he say this? I got tired of reading all of these responses, but I just had to chime in on this one. I just think it’s odd that every time someone makes the claim that calamity is God’s way of dealing with sin, they do so when God is dealing with someone else’s sin. They say things like, “Hurricane Katrina hit New Orleans because of Bourbon St. This is God’s way of cleaning that city up.” Or, “AIDS is God’s way of judging the sins of homosexuals.” But they never seem to say, “It’s clear to me that lightening struck my house because God is trying to rid me of my porn addiction.” Or “I just got into a car wreck because I am very judgmental, and God wants to cure me of that sin.”

Why does God only use calamity to point out the sins of “them”, and not the sins of “us”? Now, I know Piper said God used his cancer to point out his own sin, but that’s very different than me going into Piper’s hospital room during chemotherapy and saying, “Listen, John, I think this cancer is God’s judgment upon you.” If God is using this calamity to show this denomination their sin, why don’t we trust Him to make that clear? I just can’t understand Piper’s lack of tact or basic wisdom. Why would he say this?

]]> By: Darius T http://www.dennyburk.com/a-second-tornado-in-minneapolis/#comment-51755 Darius T Tue, 25 Aug 2009 15:11:38 +0000 http://www.dennyburk.com/?p=5069#comment-51755 Joshua, what Derek said above. Joshua, what Derek said above.

]]> By: Matthew Staton http://www.dennyburk.com/a-second-tornado-in-minneapolis/#comment-51754 Matthew Staton Tue, 25 Aug 2009 14:26:32 +0000 http://www.dennyburk.com/?p=5069#comment-51754 nice, I goofed up the quote in #53, currently waiting for moderation. It does seem that this was an unusual weather event. The quote is: <i>They don’t teach you this stuff in meteorology school. Wednesday’s severe weather and tornado event was highly unusual. This was far from your classic textbook severe weather day.</i> nice, I goofed up the quote in #53, currently waiting for moderation. It does seem that this was an unusual weather event.

The quote is:

They don’t teach you this stuff in meteorology school.

Wednesday’s severe weather and tornado event was highly unusual. This was far from your classic textbook severe weather day.

]]> By: Derek Taylor http://www.dennyburk.com/a-second-tornado-in-minneapolis/#comment-51753 Derek Taylor Tue, 25 Aug 2009 14:08:21 +0000 http://www.dennyburk.com/?p=5069#comment-51753 Joshua, Usually a warning can be provided. I can't say this is always the case, but rogue tornadoes, at least in my area of the midwest, are not all that common (I live in Illinois). We have tornado warnings fairly often. Often, we have warnings and tornado sirens, warning us to take cover. Sometimes we'll be warned to stay off the roads unless necessary. It is interesting to me that despite the amazing precision and timing of this strike, so many people want to make this all about John Piper, and they want to ignore all of his qualifying statements, which he made in anticipation of the kneejerk responses we're seeing all over the place. Indulge me for a moment, Piper critics: imagine that just ONE delegate at the ELCA conference prayed for a sign as to how they should vote at this historically significant meeting. Can you imagine a way that God might have provided a more gracious, symbolic and clear sign? If so, what would that sign look like? Joshua,
Usually a warning can be provided. I can’t say this is always the case, but rogue tornadoes, at least in my area of the midwest, are not all that common (I live in Illinois). We have tornado warnings fairly often. Often, we have warnings and tornado sirens, warning us to take cover. Sometimes we’ll be warned to stay off the roads unless necessary.

It is interesting to me that despite the amazing precision and timing of this strike, so many people want to make this all about John Piper, and they want to ignore all of his qualifying statements, which he made in anticipation of the kneejerk responses we’re seeing all over the place.

Indulge me for a moment, Piper critics: imagine that just ONE delegate at the ELCA conference prayed for a sign as to how they should vote at this historically significant meeting. Can you imagine a way that God might have provided a more gracious, symbolic and clear sign? If so, what would that sign look like?

]]> By: Matthew Staton http://www.dennyburk.com/a-second-tornado-in-minneapolis/#comment-51752 Matthew Staton Tue, 25 Aug 2009 14:08:16 +0000 http://www.dennyburk.com/?p=5069#comment-51752 Denny, I have a comment (#53) waiting moderation. I would guess the spam filter gets all excited about any comment with links in it. Denny, I have a comment (#53) waiting moderation. I would guess the spam filter gets all excited about any comment with links in it.

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