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	<title>Comments on: A Historic Candidacy That I Can’t Be Happy About</title>
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		<title>By: Ferg</title>
		<link>http://www.dennyburk.com/a-historic-candidacy-that-i-can%e2%80%99t-be-happy-about/comment-page-1/#comment-38312</link>
		<dc:creator>Ferg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Jun 2008 19:42:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dennyburk.com/?p=2096#comment-38312</guid>
		<description>That&#039;s true and I take your point.  However, I have read about &#039;divine causation&#039; quite a bit and I still have the same questions I ask in post 36.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s true and I take your point.  However, I have read about &#8216;divine causation&#8217; quite a bit and I still have the same questions I ask in post 36.</p>
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		<title>By: Truth Unites..  and Divides</title>
		<link>http://www.dennyburk.com/a-historic-candidacy-that-i-can%e2%80%99t-be-happy-about/comment-page-1/#comment-38309</link>
		<dc:creator>Truth Unites..  and Divides</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Jun 2008 19:32:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dennyburk.com/?p=2096#comment-38309</guid>
		<description>What didn&#039;t you understand Ferg?  I&#039;m merely saying that if you had a more fully developed understanding of &lt;i&gt;divine causation&lt;/i&gt; then you wouldn&#039;t caricature God in the way that you have.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What didn&#8217;t you understand Ferg?  I&#8217;m merely saying that if you had a more fully developed understanding of <i>divine causation</i> then you wouldn&#8217;t caricature God in the way that you have.</p>
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		<title>By: Ferg</title>
		<link>http://www.dennyburk.com/a-historic-candidacy-that-i-can%e2%80%99t-be-happy-about/comment-page-1/#comment-38301</link>
		<dc:creator>Ferg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Jun 2008 19:14:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dennyburk.com/?p=2096#comment-38301</guid>
		<description>Rong, I don&#039;t have a probably with evil happening in the world, or God &#039;allowing&#039; it its the calvinist interpretation that everything that happens in the world is CAUSED by God.  There is a huge difference between allowing and causing.
It&#039;s statements like Pipers where he says in an article    &quot;no matter how real and terrible Satan and his demons are in this world, they remain subordinate to the ultimate will of God.&quot;

TUAD, thanks for not answering my post in any way whatsoever.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rong, I don&#8217;t have a probably with evil happening in the world, or God &#8216;allowing&#8217; it its the calvinist interpretation that everything that happens in the world is CAUSED by God.  There is a huge difference between allowing and causing.<br />
It&#8217;s statements like Pipers where he says in an article    &#8220;no matter how real and terrible Satan and his demons are in this world, they remain subordinate to the ultimate will of God.&#8221;</p>
<p>TUAD, thanks for not answering my post in any way whatsoever.</p>
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		<title>By: Ferg</title>
		<link>http://www.dennyburk.com/a-historic-candidacy-that-i-can%e2%80%99t-be-happy-about/comment-page-1/#comment-38298</link>
		<dc:creator>Ferg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Jun 2008 19:11:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dennyburk.com/?p=2096#comment-38298</guid>
		<description>Rong, I don&#039;t have a probably with evil happening in the world, or God &#039;allowing&#039; it its the calvinist interpretation that everything that happens in the world is CAUSED by God.  There is a huge difference between allowing and causing.
It&#039;s statements like Pipers where he says in his article http://www.desiringgod.org/ResourceLibrary/ConferenceMessages/ByDate/1476_Is_God_Less_Glorious_Because_He_Ordained_that_Evil_Be/   &quot;no matter how real and terrible Satan and his demons are in this world, they remain subordinate to the ultimate will of God.&quot;

TUAD, thanks for not answering my post in any way whatsoever.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rong, I don&#8217;t have a probably with evil happening in the world, or God &#8216;allowing&#8217; it its the calvinist interpretation that everything that happens in the world is CAUSED by God.  There is a huge difference between allowing and causing.<br />
It&#8217;s statements like Pipers where he says in his article <a href="http://www.desiringgod.org/ResourceLibrary/ConferenceMessages/ByDate/1476_Is_God_Less_Glorious_Because_He_Ordained_that_Evil_Be/" rel="nofollow">http://www.desiringgod.org/ResourceLibrary/ConferenceMessages/ByDate/1476_Is_God_Less_Glorious_Because_He_Ordained_that_Evil_Be/</a>   &#8220;no matter how real and terrible Satan and his demons are in this world, they remain subordinate to the ultimate will of God.&#8221;</p>
<p>TUAD, thanks for not answering my post in any way whatsoever.</p>
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		<title>By: Paul</title>
		<link>http://www.dennyburk.com/a-historic-candidacy-that-i-can%e2%80%99t-be-happy-about/comment-page-1/#comment-38294</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Jun 2008 18:56:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dennyburk.com/?p=2096#comment-38294</guid>
		<description>TUAD in #31:

Fine TUAD, let&#039;s go paragraph by paragraph:

1) Words also mean nothing to conservatives.  In 2000, Bush said he&#039;d leave marriage to the states.  He said he was foursquare against empire building.  He said he&#039;d fund No Child Left Behind.  He claimed that he would be a compassionate conservative.  Words indeed, mean little to conservatives as well, Ann.

2) Much like when talking about the goodness of Dead shows in the 80&#039;s, Ann and I agree here.

3) I will admit, I was shocked when I saw the popular vote breakdowns.  Hillary had beaten Obama by about 3000 votes.  And yes, the press has very obviously been rooting for Obama since Iowa.

4) not only is Coulter wrong here, but she also attacks Gore for no reason.  Gore had far more reason to quibble, as the Republicans fought a recount at every turn.  If there&#039;s even an ounce of truth to the movie Recount, then anyone equating the words Republican and moral is delusional.

5) Her first sentence only goes to show how much Ann likes to press buttons.  The middle of the paragraph talking about the goodness of the constitution is spot on.  The part complaining about the demolition of anti-sodomy laws proves that she is indeed a left wing fascist pretending to be conservative.  There is nothing right wing about trampling on civil liberties.

6, 7 &amp; 8) all fine interpretations of what we learned in civics class in high school.  Except for the swipe at Dems at the end.  Especially because I&#039;d guarantee a larger number of numb-brained republicans watching American Idol than numb-brained democrats.

9) again, except for the attempt at humor at the end of the paragraph, this is Ann copying right out of our civics book.

10) Ann explains the electoral vs. popular vote thing, and then actually makes a funny joke!

11 &amp; 12) Ann stays serious for a second and makes a valid point.  When she&#039;s not talking partisan stuff, she&#039;s not a bad writer.

13 &amp; 14) I can&#039;t argue her point here.  And frankly, for about 3,000 reasons, I&#039;d rather see a Hillary nomination than an Obama one.  I don&#039;t appreciate the jab at MSNBC however...that&#039;s my favorite news network!  (and before the yammering starts, I&#039;m quite the fan of REPUBLICAN JOE SCARBOROUGH).  That said, the B.Hussein Obama comment negates the rest of this paragraph.  Whenever she uses this term, it&#039;s unwarranted fearmongering at its basest level.

15 &amp; 16) non-starter paragraphs.  Yawn.

17) and we&#039;re back where we started.  However much dems don&#039;t care about words, Republicans care about them even less.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>TUAD in #31:</p>
<p>Fine TUAD, let&#8217;s go paragraph by paragraph:</p>
<p>1) Words also mean nothing to conservatives.  In 2000, Bush said he&#8217;d leave marriage to the states.  He said he was foursquare against empire building.  He said he&#8217;d fund No Child Left Behind.  He claimed that he would be a compassionate conservative.  Words indeed, mean little to conservatives as well, Ann.</p>
<p>2) Much like when talking about the goodness of Dead shows in the 80&#8217;s, Ann and I agree here.</p>
<p>3) I will admit, I was shocked when I saw the popular vote breakdowns.  Hillary had beaten Obama by about 3000 votes.  And yes, the press has very obviously been rooting for Obama since Iowa.</p>
<p>4) not only is Coulter wrong here, but she also attacks Gore for no reason.  Gore had far more reason to quibble, as the Republicans fought a recount at every turn.  If there&#8217;s even an ounce of truth to the movie Recount, then anyone equating the words Republican and moral is delusional.</p>
<p>5) Her first sentence only goes to show how much Ann likes to press buttons.  The middle of the paragraph talking about the goodness of the constitution is spot on.  The part complaining about the demolition of anti-sodomy laws proves that she is indeed a left wing fascist pretending to be conservative.  There is nothing right wing about trampling on civil liberties.</p>
<p>6, 7 &amp; <img src='http://www.dennyburk.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_cool.gif' alt='8)' class='wp-smiley' /> all fine interpretations of what we learned in civics class in high school.  Except for the swipe at Dems at the end.  Especially because I&#8217;d guarantee a larger number of numb-brained republicans watching American Idol than numb-brained democrats.</p>
<p>9) again, except for the attempt at humor at the end of the paragraph, this is Ann copying right out of our civics book.</p>
<p>10) Ann explains the electoral vs. popular vote thing, and then actually makes a funny joke!</p>
<p>11 &amp; 12) Ann stays serious for a second and makes a valid point.  When she&#8217;s not talking partisan stuff, she&#8217;s not a bad writer.</p>
<p>13 &amp; 14) I can&#8217;t argue her point here.  And frankly, for about 3,000 reasons, I&#8217;d rather see a Hillary nomination than an Obama one.  I don&#8217;t appreciate the jab at MSNBC however&#8230;that&#8217;s my favorite news network!  (and before the yammering starts, I&#8217;m quite the fan of REPUBLICAN JOE SCARBOROUGH).  That said, the B.Hussein Obama comment negates the rest of this paragraph.  Whenever she uses this term, it&#8217;s unwarranted fearmongering at its basest level.</p>
<p>15 &amp; 16) non-starter paragraphs.  Yawn.</p>
<p>17) and we&#8217;re back where we started.  However much dems don&#8217;t care about words, Republicans care about them even less.</p>
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		<title>By: Rong</title>
		<link>http://www.dennyburk.com/a-historic-candidacy-that-i-can%e2%80%99t-be-happy-about/comment-page-1/#comment-38278</link>
		<dc:creator>Rong</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Jun 2008 18:01:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dennyburk.com/?p=2096#comment-38278</guid>
		<description>Ferg - it appears part of your issue is believing that God allowing something to occur is the same as him causing it to occur. In a much less detrimental analogy, I can forsee that my  child taking &#039;Action A&#039; will have a negative effect on them. Now I could stop them from ever doing it, or I could allow them to do it with the intent of allowing them to learn by their mistake. 

I know you are going to refer to things like the holocaust and ask how God allowing that to occur was for our benefit or for His own glory? I personally gave up trying to wrap it all up in terms that I can accept. Instead I have faith in His Word. And if you&#039;re going to quote scripture you have to quote it all.

Romans 9:22-23
22What if God, choosing to show his wrath and make his power known, bore with great patience the objects of his wrath—prepared for destruction? 23What if he did this to make the riches of his glory known to the objects of his mercy, whom he prepared in advance for glory—</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ferg &#8211; it appears part of your issue is believing that God allowing something to occur is the same as him causing it to occur. In a much less detrimental analogy, I can forsee that my  child taking &#8216;Action A&#8217; will have a negative effect on them. Now I could stop them from ever doing it, or I could allow them to do it with the intent of allowing them to learn by their mistake. </p>
<p>I know you are going to refer to things like the holocaust and ask how God allowing that to occur was for our benefit or for His own glory? I personally gave up trying to wrap it all up in terms that I can accept. Instead I have faith in His Word. And if you&#8217;re going to quote scripture you have to quote it all.</p>
<p>Romans 9:22-23<br />
22What if God, choosing to show his wrath and make his power known, bore with great patience the objects of his wrath—prepared for destruction? 23What if he did this to make the riches of his glory known to the objects of his mercy, whom he prepared in advance for glory—</p>
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		<title>By: Truth Unites... and Divides</title>
		<link>http://www.dennyburk.com/a-historic-candidacy-that-i-can%e2%80%99t-be-happy-about/comment-page-1/#comment-38277</link>
		<dc:creator>Truth Unites... and Divides</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Jun 2008 18:00:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dennyburk.com/?p=2096#comment-38277</guid>
		<description>#26 Ferg,

It would be helpful to have a more fully-orbed, nuanced understanding of divine &lt;i&gt;causation&lt;/i&gt;.

Then perhaps you would not caricature God as you do.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#26 Ferg,</p>
<p>It would be helpful to have a more fully-orbed, nuanced understanding of divine <i>causation</i>.</p>
<p>Then perhaps you would not caricature God as you do.</p>
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		<title>By: Ferg</title>
		<link>http://www.dennyburk.com/a-historic-candidacy-that-i-can%e2%80%99t-be-happy-about/comment-page-1/#comment-38275</link>
		<dc:creator>Ferg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Jun 2008 17:58:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dennyburk.com/?p=2096#comment-38275</guid>
		<description>me too DJ, me too :o)

Yeah of course I believe Romans 8:28, I just don&#039;t read it like a reformed theologian would read it.  I firmly believe that God can bring good OUT of evil, I don&#039;t believe that he CAUSES evil for our good, I don&#039;t think I could counsel someone and reassure them that God ordained that she be raped for her own good.  However I can tell her that Gord who in his sovereignty made a world with free will and this God is infinitely wise and caring and one who can be trusted who is working good out of what happened to her.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>me too DJ, me too <img src='http://www.dennyburk.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_surprised.gif' alt=':o' class='wp-smiley' /> )</p>
<p>Yeah of course I believe Romans 8:28, I just don&#8217;t read it like a reformed theologian would read it.  I firmly believe that God can bring good OUT of evil, I don&#8217;t believe that he CAUSES evil for our good, I don&#8217;t think I could counsel someone and reassure them that God ordained that she be raped for her own good.  However I can tell her that Gord who in his sovereignty made a world with free will and this God is infinitely wise and caring and one who can be trusted who is working good out of what happened to her.</p>
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		<title>By: Truth Unites... and Divides</title>
		<link>http://www.dennyburk.com/a-historic-candidacy-that-i-can%e2%80%99t-be-happy-about/comment-page-1/#comment-38271</link>
		<dc:creator>Truth Unites... and Divides</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Jun 2008 17:52:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dennyburk.com/?p=2096#comment-38271</guid>
		<description>How about just looking at the veracity of her arguments in the article linked in #15?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How about just looking at the veracity of her arguments in the article linked in #15?</p>
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		<title>By: Paul</title>
		<link>http://www.dennyburk.com/a-historic-candidacy-that-i-can%e2%80%99t-be-happy-about/comment-page-1/#comment-38269</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Jun 2008 17:46:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dennyburk.com/?p=2096#comment-38269</guid>
		<description>D.J., I don&#039;t think I was mishandling the truth (as one would probably label mishandling the truth as B.S.).  

Instead, I was clearly stating the truth in less than cuth words.  

There is no denying that she&#039;s an attention hound for the right, yet does not believe in the very civil libertinism that the right wing should classically espouse.  

There is no denying that some conservative leaders have distanced themselves from her as she continues to make outlandish remarks.  

There is no denying that she very clearly has an adam&#039;s apple.  

There is no denying that she likes to talk about The Grateful Dead.  

There is no denying that she said some terrible things about some undeserving targets.

So, no mishandling of the truth.  Just some anger that she would even be brought into a serious discussion about politics at this point.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>D.J., I don&#8217;t think I was mishandling the truth (as one would probably label mishandling the truth as B.S.).  </p>
<p>Instead, I was clearly stating the truth in less than cuth words.  </p>
<p>There is no denying that she&#8217;s an attention hound for the right, yet does not believe in the very civil libertinism that the right wing should classically espouse.  </p>
<p>There is no denying that some conservative leaders have distanced themselves from her as she continues to make outlandish remarks.  </p>
<p>There is no denying that she very clearly has an adam&#8217;s apple.  </p>
<p>There is no denying that she likes to talk about The Grateful Dead.  </p>
<p>There is no denying that she said some terrible things about some undeserving targets.</p>
<p>So, no mishandling of the truth.  Just some anger that she would even be brought into a serious discussion about politics at this point.</p>
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